PM Shehbaz Approves $6 Billion Refinery Upgrades Plan

[GatlingGunZ]

Dude, do you understand the difference between coal to gas and coal to liquid ? You keep posting new data that disproves your own arguments . Stop relying on LLM AI and try to use common sense and natural intelligence if you have it.

The question is very simple : if CTL is viable at $45/barrel for India, as you claim, why hasn't the Indian government already invested hundreds of billions of dollars into it to reduce its biggest financial and strategic import dependence?

India was always capex starved. If you know difference between current account and savings account you would know the concept of capex. We were using most of the fund to import daily requirement.

Why do you think we are investing Coal to Gas only now ?? Did this Syngas technology only get invented in 2020s ? Any country which has surplus to spare will go after CTL project sooner or later. Even China is spending 24B $ on it. But you Pakistani might have some secret reason to go against it.

 

[Owaiz]

India was always capex starved. If you know difference between current account and savings account you would know the concept of capex. We were using most of the fund to import daily requirement.

Why do you think we are investing Coal to Gas only now ?? Did this Syngas technology only get invented in 2020s ?

Lol, you were just saying the capex reuqired was pocket change for India. And now you say India is capex starved. Make up your mind.

Anyway, you have no answer to why no money has been invested on such a no-brainer idea. Money talks, BS walks.

 

[GatlingGunZ]

Lol, you were just saying the capex reuqired was pocket change for India. And now you say India is capex starved. Make up your mind.

Anyway, you have no answer to why no money has been invested on such a no-brainer idea. Money talks, BS walks.

Yes, it is chump change.. now. Till 2014 India purchased oil using bonds. The current govt spent plenty of net profit for years repaying it back. Only in 25/26 it were all paid. Then in 2026 ASAP we launched coal to gas in priority.

You seemed to be rattled when I showed you that even China with massive crude production has 25B$ CTL project in pipeline cause it breaks your "muh volatile price" theory.

 

[Owaiz]

Yes, it is chump change.. now. Till 2014 India purchased oil using bonds. The current govt spent plenty of net profit for years repaying it back. Only in 25/26 it were all paid. Then in 2026 ASAP we launched coal to gas in priority.

And yet nothing for CTL for almost 8 decades of India being severely dependent on oil imports. Either your AI-generated analysis is trash or successive Indian governments have been really really stupid for the last 80 years.

You seemed to be rattled when I showed you that even China with massive crude production has 25B$ CTL project in pipeline cause it breaks your "muh volatile price" theory.

Lol, you are just projecting your own state of mind on others. "Even China" ? China's investments in energy dwarf those of India, so China having 25 bn in "pipeline" does not say anything about viability of commercial CTL in India, and China's coal has lower ash content than India's coal and is more commercially viable. Also, for China 25 bn is a fraction of what it has spent and has in "pipeline" for defence and strategic projects. China may produce more crude than India, but it also has to import more than India because its consumption dwarfs that of India. So, the "massive crude production " argument is irrelevant because China is more dependent on imported crude than India in absolute terms. And for them, considering 25 bn in a strategic investment in CTL based on cleaner coal makes absolute sense to hedge against the risk of their oil supplies being disrupted.

But you still haven't answered why India has not invested this "chump change" for 8 decade when "even China" is doing it if the economics is as viable as you claim.

 

[GatlingGunZ]

And yet nothing for CTL for almost 8 decades of India being severely dependent on oil imports. Either your AI-generated analysis is trash or successive Indian governments have been really really stupid for the last 80 years.


Lol, you are just projecting your own state of mind on others. "Even China" ? China's investments in energy dwarf those of India, so China having 25 bn in "pipeline" does not say anything about viability of commercial CTL in India, and China's coal has lower ash content than India's coal and is more commercially viable. Also, for China 25 bn is a fraction of what it has spent and has in "pipeline" for defence and strategic projects. China may produce more crude than India, but it also has to import more than India because its consumption dwarfs that of India. So, the "massive crude production " argument is irrelevant because China is more dependent on imported crude than India in absolute terms. And for them, considering 25 bn in a strategic investment in CTL based on cleaner coal makes absolute sense to hedge against the risk of their oil supplies being disrupted.

But you still haven't answered why India has not invested this "chump change" for 8 decade when "even China" is doing it if the economics is as viable as you claim.

LoL I already told you the reason. It's the unavailability of excess capex.
For 6 decades your pathetically mismanaged nation was ahead of us in per capita income. That should tell you how India used to be untill 2010s.

Looks like you are salty after reading that Pakistan can't use thar coal for CTL purpose even if it wanted and had capex to spare. The break-even point of 90$ per barrel just kills any prospect for you. Same will be Coal to Gas prospect for you.
Don't be jealous.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

@peagle
THAR COAL doesn't look viable for Pakistan.
Break-even point is insanely high.


Building a 100,000 BPD coal-to-liquids (CTL) plant using Pakistan's Thar Lignite coal will require a significantly higher CAPEX ($8.5 billion to $11.5 billion USD) compared to using typical Indian bituminous coal varieties ($6.0 billion to $8.0 billion USD).The massive cost variance is driven entirely by the poor quality of Thar coal, which demands extensive preprocessing, specialized gasifiers, and outsized infrastructure.Levelized Cost per Barrel Breakdown (100,000 BPD Plant)

Cost Component	Indian Coal Plant (Total: $60 – $70)	Thar Lignite Plant (Total: $90 – $105)
Coal Feedstock	$20 – $25 (Low cost due to cheap domestic mining by Coal India Limited.)	$25 – $35 (Low base cost, but requires double the tonnage due to massive moisture content.)
CAPEX Amortization	$22 – $25 (Based on a $7 Billion plant baseline over a standard 25-year lifecycle.)	$32 – $36 (Higher capital recovery charge due to the $10 Billion inflated plant cost.)
Plant OPEX	$15 – $18 (Standard costs for catalysts, ash management, and labor.)	$25 – $30 (Outsized spending on continuous coal drying and heavy water recycling.)
Carbon Taxes / Credits	+$3 to $5 (or lower with state subsidies)	+$8 to $10 (Higher emissions per barrel due to drying lignite)

Key Economic TakeawaysThe Indian Advantage

• []Market Viability: With standard global crude oil hovering between $75 and $95 per barrel, an Indian CTL plant operating at $65/barrel yields a comfortable profit margin.[]Government Subsidy Cushion: India’s financial incentives and viability gap funding can shave an extra $5 to $7 per barrel off the CAPEX amortization cost, lowering the actual breakeven even further.

The Thar Challenge

• []High Breakeven Risk: At $95+ per barrel, a Thar-based plant is highly vulnerable to international oil price drops. If global crude drops below $80, the plant runs at a massive net loss.[]The Scale Dilemma: To remain viable, a Thar plant requires massive, uninterrupted mining scale to push raw lignite extraction costs to absolute rock bottom.

Pakistan with successful pilot project of shale gas/oil don't need coal to oil solutions.

By 2027 we will see first shale gas extracted from Sindh fields which is commercially viable.

 

[Owaiz]

LoL I already told you the reason. It's the unavailability of excess capex.
For 6 decades your pathetically mismanaged nation was ahead of us in per capita income. That should tell you how India used to be untill 2010s.

Looks like you are salty after reading that Pakistan can't use thar coal for CTL purpose even if it wanted and had capex to spare. The break-even point of 90$ per barrel just kills any prospect for you. Same will be Coal to Gas prospect for you.
Don't be jealous.

You see to be complete retard who keeps deflecting when called out on his stupidity.

I am not a chauvinist nutjob like you. If you had cared to read my posts, I have already called out the Pakistani members on their delusional dreams that Pakistan is going to become self-sufficient in energy. Just because their posts are divorced from reality doesnt mean I am going to give you a pass on your BS.

So, your final answer is that India has not been able to spend what your described as "chump change" because of "unavailability of excess capex" . One has to be a special degree of stupid to be able to say that with a straight face. You clearly have no understanding of what you are talking about , for all the AI generated trash you keep dumping. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Michael]

In few years Pakistan will be exporting refined petrol/diesel.

You'd better pray that this is just a dream.
You'd better pray that this day will never come.

The world we live in is full of unspoken rules. Neither India nor Pakistan, with all their friends and enemies, will allow their energy independence.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

You'd better pray that this is just a dream.
You'd better pray that this day will never come.

The world we live in is full of unspoken rules. Neither India nor Pakistan, with all their friends and enemies, will allow their energy independence.

?? No one in the world can stop Pakistan-India energy independence if we found oil/gas within our borders.

The export of refined surplus oil/diesel isn't energy independence as crude oil is imported.