PM Shehbaz Approves $6 Billion Refinery Upgrades Plan

[GatlingGunZ]

Dude, do you understand the difference between coal to gas and coal to liquid ? You keep posting new data that disproves your own arguments . Stop relying on LLM AI and try to use common sense and natural intelligence if you have it.

The question is very simple : if CTL is viable at $45/barrel for India, as you claim, why hasn't the Indian government already invested hundreds of billions of dollars into it to reduce its biggest financial and strategic import dependence?

India was always capex starved. If you know difference between current account and savings account you would know the concept of capex. We were using most of the fund to import daily requirement.

Why do you think we are investing Coal to Gas only now ?? Did this Syngas technology only get invented in 2020s ? Any country which has surplus to spare will go after CTL project sooner or later. Even China is spending 24B $ on it. But you Pakistani might have some secret reason to go against it.

 

[Owaiz]

India was always capex starved. If you know difference between current account and savings account you would know the concept of capex. We were using most of the fund to import daily requirement.

Why do you think we are investing Coal to Gas only now ?? Did this Syngas technology only get invented in 2020s ?

Lol, you were just saying the capex reuqired was pocket change for India. And now you say India is capex starved. Make up your mind.

Anyway, you have no answer to why no money has been invested on such a no-brainer idea. Money talks, BS walks.

 

[GatlingGunZ]

Lol, you were just saying the capex reuqired was pocket change for India. And now you say India is capex starved. Make up your mind.

Anyway, you have no answer to why no money has been invested on such a no-brainer idea. Money talks, BS walks.

Yes, it is chump change.. now. Till 2014 India purchased oil using bonds. The current govt spent plenty of net profit for years repaying it back. Only in 25/26 it were all paid. Then in 2026 ASAP we launched coal to gas in priority.

You seemed to be rattled when I showed you that even China with massive crude production has 25B$ CTL project in pipeline cause it breaks your "muh volatile price" theory.

 

[Owaiz]

Yes, it is chump change.. now. Till 2014 India purchased oil using bonds. The current govt spent plenty of net profit for years repaying it back. Only in 25/26 it were all paid. Then in 2026 ASAP we launched coal to gas in priority.

And yet nothing for CTL for almost 8 decades of India being severely dependent on oil imports. Either your AI-generated analysis is trash or successive Indian governments have been really really stupid for the last 80 years.

You seemed to be rattled when I showed you that even China with massive crude production has 25B$ CTL project in pipeline cause it breaks your "muh volatile price" theory.

Lol, you are just projecting your own state of mind on others. "Even China" ? China's investments in energy dwarf those of India, so China having 25 bn in "pipeline" does not say anything about viability of commercial CTL in India, and China's coal has lower ash content than India's coal and is more commercially viable. Also, for China 25 bn is a fraction of what it has spent and has in "pipeline" for defence and strategic projects. China may produce more crude than India, but it also has to import more than India because its consumption dwarfs that of India. So, the "massive crude production " argument is irrelevant because China is more dependent on imported crude than India in absolute terms. And for them, considering 25 bn in a strategic investment in CTL based on cleaner coal makes absolute sense to hedge against the risk of their oil supplies being disrupted.

But you still haven't answered why India has not invested this "chump change" for 8 decade when "even China" is doing it if the economics is as viable as you claim.

 

[GatlingGunZ]

And yet nothing for CTL for almost 8 decades of India being severely dependent on oil imports. Either your AI-generated analysis is trash or successive Indian governments have been really really stupid for the last 80 years.


Lol, you are just projecting your own state of mind on others. "Even China" ? China's investments in energy dwarf those of India, so China having 25 bn in "pipeline" does not say anything about viability of commercial CTL in India, and China's coal has lower ash content than India's coal and is more commercially viable. Also, for China 25 bn is a fraction of what it has spent and has in "pipeline" for defence and strategic projects. China may produce more crude than India, but it also has to import more than India because its consumption dwarfs that of India. So, the "massive crude production " argument is irrelevant because China is more dependent on imported crude than India in absolute terms. And for them, considering 25 bn in a strategic investment in CTL based on cleaner coal makes absolute sense to hedge against the risk of their oil supplies being disrupted.

But you still haven't answered why India has not invested this "chump change" for 8 decade when "even China" is doing it if the economics is as viable as you claim.

LoL I already told you the reason. It's the unavailability of excess capex.
For 6 decades your pathetically mismanaged nation was ahead of us in per capita income. That should tell you how India used to be untill 2010s.

Looks like you are salty after reading that Pakistan can't use thar coal for CTL purpose even if it wanted and had capex to spare. The break-even point of 90$ per barrel just kills any prospect for you. Same will be Coal to Gas prospect for you.
Don't be jealous.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

@peagle
THAR COAL doesn't look viable for Pakistan.
Break-even point is insanely high.


Building a 100,000 BPD coal-to-liquids (CTL) plant using Pakistan's Thar Lignite coal will require a significantly higher CAPEX ($8.5 billion to $11.5 billion USD) compared to using typical Indian bituminous coal varieties ($6.0 billion to $8.0 billion USD).The massive cost variance is driven entirely by the poor quality of Thar coal, which demands extensive preprocessing, specialized gasifiers, and outsized infrastructure.Levelized Cost per Barrel Breakdown (100,000 BPD Plant)

Cost Component	Indian Coal Plant (Total: $60 – $70)	Thar Lignite Plant (Total: $90 – $105)
Coal Feedstock	$20 – $25 (Low cost due to cheap domestic mining by Coal India Limited.)	$25 – $35 (Low base cost, but requires double the tonnage due to massive moisture content.)
CAPEX Amortization	$22 – $25 (Based on a $7 Billion plant baseline over a standard 25-year lifecycle.)	$32 – $36 (Higher capital recovery charge due to the $10 Billion inflated plant cost.)
Plant OPEX	$15 – $18 (Standard costs for catalysts, ash management, and labor.)	$25 – $30 (Outsized spending on continuous coal drying and heavy water recycling.)
Carbon Taxes / Credits	+$3 to $5 (or lower with state subsidies)	+$8 to $10 (Higher emissions per barrel due to drying lignite)

Key Economic TakeawaysThe Indian Advantage

• []Market Viability: With standard global crude oil hovering between $75 and $95 per barrel, an Indian CTL plant operating at $65/barrel yields a comfortable profit margin.[]Government Subsidy Cushion: India’s financial incentives and viability gap funding can shave an extra $5 to $7 per barrel off the CAPEX amortization cost, lowering the actual breakeven even further.

The Thar Challenge

• []High Breakeven Risk: At $95+ per barrel, a Thar-based plant is highly vulnerable to international oil price drops. If global crude drops below $80, the plant runs at a massive net loss.[]The Scale Dilemma: To remain viable, a Thar plant requires massive, uninterrupted mining scale to push raw lignite extraction costs to absolute rock bottom.

Pakistan with successful pilot project of shale gas/oil don't need coal to oil solutions.

By 2027 we will see first shale gas extracted from Sindh fields which is commercially viable.

 

[Owaiz]

LoL I already told you the reason. It's the unavailability of excess capex.
For 6 decades your pathetically mismanaged nation was ahead of us in per capita income. That should tell you how India used to be untill 2010s.

Looks like you are salty after reading that Pakistan can't use thar coal for CTL purpose even if it wanted and had capex to spare. The break-even point of 90$ per barrel just kills any prospect for you. Same will be Coal to Gas prospect for you.
Don't be jealous.

You see to be complete retard who keeps deflecting when called out on his stupidity.

I am not a chauvinist nutjob like you. If you had cared to read my posts, I have already called out the Pakistani members on their delusional dreams that Pakistan is going to become self-sufficient in energy. Just because their posts are divorced from reality doesnt mean I am going to give you a pass on your BS.

So, your final answer is that India has not been able to spend what your described as "chump change" because of "unavailability of excess capex" . One has to be a special degree of stupid to be able to say that with a straight face. You clearly have no understanding of what you are talking about , for all the AI generated trash you keep dumping. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Michael]

In few years Pakistan will be exporting refined petrol/diesel.

You'd better pray that this is just a dream.
You'd better pray that this day will never come.

The world we live in is full of unspoken rules. Neither India nor Pakistan, with all their friends and enemies, will allow their energy independence.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

You'd better pray that this is just a dream.
You'd better pray that this day will never come.

The world we live in is full of unspoken rules. Neither India nor Pakistan, with all their friends and enemies, will allow their energy independence.

?? No one in the world can stop Pakistan-India energy independence if we found oil/gas within our borders.

The export of refined surplus oil/diesel isn't energy independence as crude oil is imported.

 

[Michael]

?? No one in the world can stop Pakistan-India energy independence if we found oil/gas within our borders.

Venezuela's oil reserves are sufficient for independence. But what would be the cost?
Iran possesses abundant oil reserves, extraction capacity, and refining capabilities. But what would be the cost?
Russia. What would be the cost?
The GCC countries are all major oil producers. However, they are not independent. What would be the cost?
In the unspoken rules of international politics, resources discovered on your territory do not necessarily grant you control. If you want control, you must pay a price. Accepting widespread international sanctions is just one of those prices.

Many people only see China's rise today, but they don't see the price China has paid for it.

The export of refined surplus oil/diesel isn't energy independence as crude oil is imported.

Once you import crude oil and refine it into refined petroleum products, your primary task is to meet your own needs. Only after satisfying your own needs should you consider exports. This is a fundamental rule for a nation's survival.

You can first calculate how much refined petroleum product Pakistan needs...

 

[peagle]

This man ki ASHA crap may work in your liberal sewing circle

But in the real world their is a deep deep animosity between us and the Hindus

Pretending this is not the case is disingenuous

Again maybe it's more intense amongst Kashmiri,

You know what, the sad thing is I pity the likes of you but at the same time i would actually die for the likes of you, because you're still my own. But it's frustrating that you lot are unable to think beyond a single page. You're the type they love because you're so simple to manipulate.
It's the same simple mindset where some mullahs in india say Ram and Krishna were prophets of Islam, because they're unable to think beyond a single page.

You have few assumptions in your head and it's those assumptions is what you are discussing and arguing with, reality and facts can go to hell.

All my grandparents were born in Jammu and Kashmir, even MY father was born in Jammu and Kashmir, my Mother is the first amongst us to have been born outside of Jammu and Kashmir.
My father left Jammu and Kashmir at the same age I left Pakistan, it was traumatic for me, in ways i still cannot describe in simple terms. My father escaped an actual ethnic cleansing and a genocide, so keep you moral bullshit to yourself, i know what suffering is.

I'll put it in simple terms, points your guns at anyone, i couldn't care less, often i agree with you and i have shown that with my reactions, often i disagree but I couldn't care less, say what you want.
Point you fingers at Pakistani Hindus and we have a problem, If I see it, I will respond.

I can point out few issues myself but i would rather not, not everything needs to be said, especially in public, that's a mature approach. It's about issues, not the people.
All that i am asking is point your guns outside the country, not inside. A request from a brother, whether you consider me one or not.

 

[peagle]

@peagle

Tell me in your world, do you live outside of a cupboard?

Brother Hussain lives in his cab.

Regards

If he did, what would be wrong with that?
Are you here to judge based on a profession or the value of his arguments.
Is your Hindu Rashtra awakening inside you?
Don't you lot go around pretending to be secular?
That obsession with caste and what people do is a pitiful mindset.

The only reason Indians are doing better, no that's not right,
Indian Hindus, no that's not right either,
Indian upper caste Hindus, that's the only class that's doing better, the rest of you lot are in the same sewage as every other third world people.

The only reason Indian upper caste Hindus are doing better is because of the British and the preferences they were accorded by the British. It's a 100 years of a leg up, so to speak, so keep your ego in check.

Furthermore, the only reason we see Indians, sorry my mistake, it's Indian upper caste Hindus in positions of power is because they have been allowed by the western powers.

The biggest success stories of the previous half century are countries like Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore and China.
Where are the global faces from East Asian ethnic background, you don't see them because the doors are closed to them.

You only see Indians, sorry, Upper caste Hindus because they have been allowed, that's the only reason, it's nothing special.
Masters have allowed them to play.

So whatever someones profession, it doesn't define him or his family, at least he can change, his society is fluid.
According to your Hindu mindset, they should belong there, it's their place because of their previous life etc etc etc that's sickening.

 

[hussain0216]

You know what, the sad thing is I pity the likes of you but at the same time i would actually die for the likes of you, because you're still my own. But it's frustrating that you lot are unable to think beyond a single page. You're the type they love because you're so simple to manipulate.
It's the same simple mindset where some mullahs in india say Ram and Krishna were prophets of Islam, because they're unable to think beyond a single page.

You have few assumptions in your head and it's those assumptions is what you are discussing and arguing with, reality and facts can go to hell.

All my grandparents were born in Jammu and Kashmir, even MY father was born in Jammu and Kashmir, my Mother is the first amongst us to have been born outside of Jammu and Kashmir.
My father left Jammu and Kashmir at the same age I left Pakistan, it was traumatic for me, in ways i still cannot describe in simple terms. My father escaped an actual ethnic cleansing and a genocide, so keep you moral bullshit to yourself, i know what suffering is.

I'll put it in simple terms, points your guns at anyone, i couldn't care less, often i agree with you and i have shown that with my reactions, often i disagree but I couldn't care less, say what you want.
Point you fingers at Pakistani Hindus and we have a problem, If I see it, I will respond.

I can point out few issues myself but i would rather not, not everything needs to be said, especially in public, that's a mature approach. It's about issues, not the people.
All that i am asking is point your guns outside the country, not inside. A request from a brother, whether you consider me one or not.

I don't get what your talking about

Hindus are idol worshippers
We have historical enmity with them
Currently a form of hindutva is one of the biggest enemies of Pakistan and Muslims

Why the hell would I look at Hindus with anything except hatred and contempt



In what world do you live in where we can make these idol worshippers as friend's

It's a joke


At best we can have a cold distance acceptance that we will tolerate each others existence, beyond that what the hell else is there?????

You want to invite these idol worshippers into our weddings our homes????
What are you talking about?


I will say again, maybe in your liberal sewing circle or friends you have some aman ki asha viewpoints


In the real world, their is community wide contempt and hatred for Hindus


Remember, we KNOW these bastards and it's our duty to awaken the wider Muslim world to the Hindu

Their is a reason the Hindus simp so hard for the Zionists