PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[Forsvaret]

I genuinely don’t care about the 2024 elections or what the constitution says at this point, survival comes before procedure.

The survival of a country comes from the will of its people and how it’s implemented. Every 5 years in Pakistan, there is a new general election. People vote in mass of course but what they vote for do not comes out in the form of govt. Instead, we get pre-poll, during-poll and post-poll rigging always orchestrated by the military establishment. Have you ever asked yourself why do this with such consistency? Why are they so afraid of implementing will of the people despite losing half the country by going against the combined will of Pakistanis following general elections in 1970?

 

[newb3e]

Abay chal - so called internet tough guy.
You have nothing to show and are projecting your own insecurities. Ghar se tameez seekhi nahin aur jab koi tumhari zabaan mein baat karay tu "pipe it down". You and your entire DNA strain from the point it separated cant do jack to anyone.

What you write is nonsense and keep claiming that out of nowhere young men and boys were organized by ISI out of thin air. Like I said - Aadha teetar aadha batair.

tameez ka lecture from someone who called me ullu ka phattha and yet i dint reply in kind!!

sit down old man!! you dont have monopoly over ethics!

 

[General Hannibal]

So how come military establishment lost East Pakistan by denying or not accepting the results of general elections 1970?

Yes.i was expecting this.well.military did lost the east Pakistan.that means ethno nationalism was present in that time too.and ethno nationalism is still present in today.it is the pak military that is keeping pakistan together.otherwise, balkanisation would happened long time ago.and don’t tell me ethnic nationalism is happening cos of injustice.then tell me what injustice newly created Pakistan done to baloch in 1947??and even if Pakistan accepted 1970's election,east Pakistan would definitely tried secession sooner or later.remember that agartala conspiracy case against sheikh mujib??that accusation was true.he accepted it later in his memoirs.

 

[Forsvaret]

Yes.i was expecting this.well.military did lost the east Pakistan.that means ethno nationalism was present in that time too.and ethno nationalism is still present in today.

Ethno nationalism wasn’t an issue. India has it too, as well as other countries in the region. But none of them relied on their military to keep the country together. Instead, they let their people decide that through the power of their vote—something the military establishment simply doesn’t allow here in Pakistan.

 

[PakAl]

I think, Imran Khan at that time was relying on military establishment’s crutches to save his govt from opposition’s VONC. I remember Bajwa offered to mediate and asked PDM to back off from VONC in return for Imran dissolving assemblies and thus giving them fresh elections. But PDM by that time had gotten solid guarantees from abroad (US cipher) that Imran was to be removed through VONC only—which it ultimately did when military establishment sided with PDM too—while claiming to be "neutral" on TV through their DG ISPR.

Imran Khan himself backtracked on American involvement and claimed it was only Bajwa who did everything. If Usa/Bajwa were involved then why the first Motion passed and IK won it, back in March 2021. Both PTI and PDMs were pressurising the establishment, Pti were saying keep us in power and Pdm were saying IK has lost majority and we will vote to remove him, this rola continued from Nov 2021 till April 2022 till his removal. I personally think Pdm managed to bring Mqm Bap Pmlq on their sides, plus 30MNAs, this always happens in Pakistan, people sell votes over money, the establishment only allowed the vote to take place, they didnt have to do much else, they agreed because of PDm pressure, plus the breakdown of relations between themselves and Pti, also international players were not happy.

Establishment did inform IK Pti they don't have much options except to either resign and go for elections or voting will remove him, Pti refused to dissolve assemblies and maintained its all propaganda by Pdm and IK has majority. The big rola started when IK party refused to allow the voting to take place, then dissolved assemblies once motion was tabled, behind the scenes they must have been told not to do this but Pti refused to listen. Once IK removal behind the scenes they were told to go in opposition but Pti chose the Nawaz Sharif way, and everything went downhill from that.

Just to be clear, yes I believe Pti and establishment relation were going downhill, Pti government also had issues with USA, Saudia since they only like yes men in power. The cypher may have been true but even Pti is today lobbying the Usa for support to get IK out of jail, and trying to expose Military. In Pakistan everyone does this, goes running to Papa Usa and Saudia for support. Pti tried to play politics on many occasions but failed and trapped themselves. These were IK decisions since Pervez Ellahi and Sheikh Rasheed disagreed with him, he chose not to listen.

 

[PakAl]

He never had the majority; it was a cobbled alliance engineered by the Establishment and even his own party was full of the 'Electable' turncoats. He won the first NCM because the military coerced 'allies' like MQM to vote for Imran. The second time around, the military wasn't obliging.
Your long post is again spot on. The veterans--the real political brains like Sheikh Rasheed and Ch. Pervez Elahi knew what to do then and what was coming but, my God, Imran proved so stubborn, so stupid that he even wanted the powerful Punjab Assembly to be dissolved. Who would do that?!!! The six months between the Fall of 2021 and April 2022 betrayed an incredible lack of a political brain, incredible hubris, and incredible stubbornness. The idiot could have sat in the Opposition Benches as a very powerful Leader of the Opposition: He would still have the K-P government and even if Punjab Assembly was lost, he had a large presence there too.

Another 2 major mistakes were encouraging army guys to topple Asim Munir, Facebook, Twitter, even PDF members were saying the same, some claimed army chain of command is collapsing. I also remember IK saying he is getting information from retired army people, which then led to Faiz Hameed getting trapped, the army must have known but didnt want to take action but then had no choice. Some Pmln leaders even went on tv and said IK is making a mistake, the retired guys are retired, they will not be able to help him and that's exactly what happened. Today noone is helping Imran Khan.

I personally think Imran Khan can face treason charges and be hanged like Bhutto but thankfully army is not doing that. I am talking about the high possibility not saying I want it to happen. This is why I always maintained PTI needs to get some senior leaders like Pervez Ellahi, SMQ, Sheikh Rasheed, Fawad Ch involved, give them the authority to negotiate with the establishment and find a way out, get IK out of jail, be peaceful for a few years and then slowly try to come back to power, this is not about a deal but political strategy to cool the situation down, even during wars people negotiate, allow aid to enter, dead bodies to be collected. Look at PPP and Pmln, they have decades old experienced politicians, all the big ones not once mentioned about IK getting hanged because deep down they know tomorrow it could be them, they are being careful otherwise they can support this move. I don't understand why Pti leadership doesn't encourage IK to do this, their aim should be to save him, what are they waiting for, for him to be hanged.

 

[PakAl]

Ethno nationalism wasn’t an issue. India has it too, as well as other countries in the region. But none of them relied on their military to keep the country together. Instead, they let their people decide that through the power of their vote—something the military establishment simply doesn’t allow here in Pakistan.

Our politicians and rulers are the ones who exploited ethnic issues for political votes. When have we ever heard politicians talk about peace, Brotherhood, unity, working to make a strong Pakistan, Pakistan first etc. Ajk politicians also do the same, they know exactly how to manipulator our awaam.

 

[Forsvaret]

Just to be clear, yes I believe Pti and establishment relation were going downhill, Pti government also had issues with USA, Saudia since they only like yes men in power. The cypher may have been true but even Pti is today lobbying the Usa for support to get IK out of jail, and trying to expose Military. In Pakistan everyone does this, goes running to Papa Usa and Saudia for support. Pti tried to play politics on many occasions but failed and trapped themselves.

You keep saying how Imran Khan / PTI trapped themselves. If they’re trapped, how come military establishment with all their PDM support, media support, judiciary are simply unable to take Pakistan out of their self-inflicted quagmire? The fact of the matter is that it’s Imran Khan who has trapped military establishment by choosing to remain in prison, by choosing not to cut any kind of deal with them, by choosing to resist whatever they’re trying to do with Pakistan going forward.

 

[Forsvaret]

When have we ever heard politicians talk about peace, Brotherhood, unity, working to make a strong Pakistan, Pakistan first etc.

Imran Khan is the only politician who talks about Pakistaniyat and unity above all ethnic or linguistic divisions. Which is why PTI is the sole party which has a supporter base across the entirety of Pakistan and even among overseas Pakistanis.

 

[Master Chief]

Another 2 major mistakes were encouraging army guys to topple Asim Munir, Facebook, Twitter, even PDF members were saying the same, some claimed army chain of command is collapsing. I also remember IK saying he is getting information from retired army people, which then led to Faiz Hameed getting trapped, the army must have known but didnt want to take action but then had no choice. Some Pmln leaders even went on tv and said IK is making a mistake, the retired guys are retired, they will not be able to help him and that's exactly what happened. Today noone is helping Imran Khan.

I personally think Imran Khan can face treason charges and be hanged like Bhutto but thankfully army is not doing that. I am talking about the high possibility not saying I want it to happen. This is why I always maintained PTI needs to get some senior leaders like Pervez Ellahi, SMQ, Sheikh Rasheed, Fawad Ch involved, give them the authority to negotiate with the establishment and find a way out, get IK out of jail, be peaceful for a few years and then slowly try to come back to power, this is not about a deal but political strategy to cool the situation down, even during wars people negotiate, allow aid to enter, dead bodies to be collected. Look at PPP and Pmln, they have decades old experienced politicians, all the big ones not once mentioned about IK getting hanged because deep down they know tomorrow it could be them, they are being careful otherwise they can support this move. I don't understand why Pti leadership doesn't encourage IK to do this, their aim should be to save him, what are they waiting for, for him to be hanged.

This is a very balanced interpretation and has some entirely logical conclusions. I reiterate my earlier comment that Khan has apparently "lost the plot" significantly and now he really needs to be pragmatic, for his own and the nation's interests. Even his most ardent supporters must see this.

And if the response to this is the usual emotional claptrap that he would prefer "martyrdom" to "save Pakistan", then I put it to those people that no such paradigm exists and in fact, such manoeuvres are entirely selfish and will actually result in significant harm upon the nation state.

Indeed, the only true "martyrdom" to "save Pakistan" that Khan could now offer is to cut a deal to leave Pakistan and stay out of politics.

 

[Forsvaret]

I reiterate my earlier comment that Khan has apparently "lost the plot" significantly and now he really needs to be pragmatic, for his own and the nation's interests. Even his most ardent supporters must see this.

No. It’s actually military establishment that has lost the plot as they’re simply unable to bring Pakistan out of their self-inflicted quagmire. Despite trying their very best to alienate Imran Khan from his supporter base by isolating him in a prison cell for the past two years—the popularity of Imran Khan among the public at large is still intact. People of Pakistan no longer trust the military establishment and their "narratives". And it’s actually the biggest victory of Imran Khan from his solitary confinement.

 

[shanipisces2002]

This is kind of off topic but in the end the establishment's role should be to defend Pakistan’s borders—not to govern the country. If that mindset had been in place from the beginning, Pakistan might have been spared the imposition of martial laws and the rise of political entities like PML and PPP, which many view as corrupt institutions. Sadly, when we look back at the history of the Subcontinent, it’s riddled with betrayal, treachery, and self-serving agendas.

 

[Forsvaret]

Indeed, the only true "martyrdom" to "save Pakistan" that Khan could now offer is to cut a deal to leave Pakistan and stay out of politics.

So, IK should just leave Pakistan in the hands of the same selfish and self-serving military establishment—which has been here and sucking its blood for the past 70+ years? And this final major boot licking from IK is somehow gonna "save" Pakistan going forward?

 

[Forsvaret]

This is kind of off topic but in the end the establishment's role should be to defend Pakistan’s borders—not to govern the country.

Exactly! Pakistan’s military establishment wants people to vote but not decide who actually gets into power. They want people to seek justice in courts but not decide if it actually is served. They want people to consume the media but not decide if it’s actually showing the truth.

 

[Meengla]

I personally think Imran Khan can face treason charges and be hanged like Bhutto but thankfully army is not doing that. I am talking about the high possibility not saying I want it to happen. This is why I always maintained PTI needs to get some senior leaders like Pervez Ellahi, SMQ, Sheikh Rasheed, Fawad Ch involved, give them the authority to negotiate with the establishment and find a way out, get IK out of jail, be peaceful for a few years and then slowly try to come back to power, this is not about a deal but political strategy to cool the situation down,

Wise post again.
Firstly, nobody is going to hang Imran Khan; Pakistan can't bear the dead body of Zulfi Bhutto after nearly half a century. The Sindhis have not forgotten or forgiven his 'judicial murder' and they may resort to ethnic blackmail themselves if PPP is removed from power using machinations. The Establishment is aware of the need to placate all major ethnic sensitivities, including those in the K-P, and thus the rascals like Gandapur were tolerated.
As to the bolded part: After all the great posts, you still don't understand the true nature of Imran Khan: He does not believe in anyone else's opinion! As I keep saying, even in this pro Imran forum, a poll says that 'PTI has no future after Imran'. Why is that after the so-called 27 years of struggle?
Guys: The issue with Imran is Imran himself!! There is no other way to put it.