Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[DDG-80]

India is not to be blamed here.

I'm not blaming India. I'm just saying that we should have a dedicated cell to fiercely counter our enemies' propaganda.

 

[CombatCorner]

I'm not blaming India. I'm just saying that we should have a dedicated cell to fiercely counter our enemies' propaganda.

Well you do spend some 20 hours a day on a Pakistani forum posting threads on every thing from Indian cows produce more manure than Pakistani cows and how some Taliban nobody threatens Pakistan.
Maybe you should join your cousins at DFI to get your word across.
But then you are what you are, an Indian needing a Pakistani forum to have any voice but habitually needs to bark against the same Pakistan to satisfy your tiny ego.

 

[Deino]

Meh , are you some kind of pervert? I mean I have seen too many people here talking about wet dreams and something like that too many times , so tell me are you trying to be funny ?

What does that supposed to mean? Eh?


Look ,we are all defence enthusiasts and that's what happens when some new development is around the corner ,please learn to digest it like I have

India is de facto a democratic country,
People have the power to topple the government at any given election
Not just on paper
If we have a stable government for 10 years ,and it continues to be in power that doesn't guarantees that it will not be removed in the next election!

Blah blah blah bla
india- democracy!
And china - not democracy!

Ah, no answers to my concerns and that's a reason to call me pervert!? So I hit a nerve!

What about all these wet-dreams like Tejas will be this and then until then since decades and still only a few are in service, not at the specification the IAF wanted or currently needs and that one - the Mk.2 - will at best be again too late and then no longer adequate. What about all these fancy claims about additional aircraft carriers, jet trainer projects, transports, own AEW types, tanks to be "ready soon" since decades and shall I go on ... but I am pervert!? (by the way reported!)

And anything else is irrelevant ... what counts are results and facts! And here in contrast to China is India only good with words.

But yes, I'm a pervert since I speak out facts and do not hide behind nationalistic "Jai Hind" brahoo.

 

[Pingle]

Well you do spend some 20 hours a day on a Pakistani forum posting threads on every thing from Indian cows produce more manure than Pakistani cows and how some Taliban nobody threatens Pakistan.
Maybe you should join your cousins at DFI to get your word across.
But then you are what you are, an Indian needing a Pakistani forum to have any voice but habitually needs to bark against the same Pakistan to satisfy your tiny ego.

You are right.... but now shall we focus on thread topic? Shall we?

 

[Yasser76]

So it's not fast track then?

 

[Yasser76]

Why are you so desperate and frustrated? Please calm down your tiny ego.

No need to get personal, you and the other ***** jumping up and down about "fast track" now you need to team up with Greece.

Proves my point, this "negotiation" is going nowhere....

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

So it's not fast track then?

This is a separate Deal known as 114 MRFA

Greece wants to be a part of it

Naval acquisition is only 26 planes , only for India because Greece doesn't use Aircraft Carriers

 

[Yasser76]

This is a separate Deal known as 114 MRFA

Greece wants to be a part of it

Naval acquisition is only 26 planes , only for India because Greece doesn't use Aircraft Carriers

You dont knwo what your talking about. MRFA winner not decided yet so how can they IAF start negotiations with Dassault?

 

[Pingle]

This is a separate Deal known as 114 MRFA

Greece wants to be a part of it

Naval acquisition is only 26 planes , only for India because Greece doesn't use Aircraft Carriers

You are right..... its not a secret anymore that if we sign deal for 114 MRFA then its going to be 100% rafales that too in F5 version..... if 114 deal is finalized then it will come with assembly line here or if we scrap it then too it will be 48 to 66 F5s... we have now facilities infrastructure for this fighters. Others should start packing their bags already.....

 

[harpy1]

Negotiations for Rafale M will be complete by year end
A base price agreed

 

[Archie]

I don't know why we are carrying out bits and pieces type acquisition of Aircrafts

26 Rafale M/B will cost 4 billion Euros

This price is supposed to include the weapons package comprising 150 Meteor Bvr and 50 Exocet ASHM as well as a 12 year maintenance package

If you guys do the maths , this price is significantly cheaper than 7.8 Billion euros paid for 36 Rafale F3Rs

Thanks to India already having paid for India Specific enhancements , as well as availability of Maintenence and training infra structure which will be shared .
Indian Navy is also buying a smaller weapons package along with their Rafale M.

Which indicates that they will probably share the Scalp Cruise Missiles and Hammer LGB Kits with the IAF

We all know that the MRFA is dead
However IAF needs atleast 80 Rafale Type aircrafts to hold the fort before Amca enters service

It would have been a good idea to buy 26 + 54 Rafales at one go and end this MRFA Topi Drama

Coz frankly after buying 36 + 26 Rafales and having 2 airbase and 1 Naval base being equipped to handle Rafales As well has having a robust Maintainence and Training Infrastructure for the same

It would be stupidity of the highest order if IAF goes for any other aircraft

 

[Yasser76]

I don't know why we are carrying out bits and pieces type acquisition of Aircrafts

26 Rafale M/B will cost 4 billion Euros

This price is supposed to include the weapons package comprising 150 Meteor Bvr and 50 Exocet ASHM as well as a 12 year maintenance package

If you guys do the maths , this price is significantly cheaper than 7.8 Billion euros paid for 36 Rafale F3Rs

Thanks to India already having paid for India Specific enhancements , as well as availability of Maintenence and training infra structure which will be shared .
Indian Navy is also buying a smaller weapons package along with their Rafale M.

Which indicates that they will probably share the Scalp Cruise Missiles and Hammer LGB Kits with the IAF

We all know that the MRFA is dead
However IAF needs atleast 80 Rafale Type aircrafts to hold the fort before Amca enters service

It would have been a good idea to buy 26 + 54 Rafales at one go and end this MRFA Topi Drama

Coz frankly after buying 36 + 26 Rafales and having 2 airbase and 1 Naval base being equipped to handle Rafales As well has having a robust Maintainence and Training Infrastructure for the same

It would be stupidity of the highest order if IAF goes for any other aircraft

Well, despite India being a big economy you need to ask where the many is coming from, over next 3-5 years you will need to pay for

180 Tejas MK1A
SU-30MKI Upgrade
Tejas MK2
AMCA Development

Add to that other IAF projects like

New Transport aircraft to to replace AN-32
New AWACS
New refuellers


Even though payments are spread over many years, this requires quite a big acqusition budget. Another 50 Rafales (even if you have infrastructure in place) could be close to $8 Billion.

 

[harpy1]

Well, despite India being a big economy you need to ask where the many is coming from, over next 3-5 years you will need to pay for

180 Tejas MK1A
SU-30MKI Upgrade
Tejas MK2
AMCA Development

Add to that other IAF projects like

New Transport aircraft to to replace AN-32
New AWACS
New refuellers


Even though payments are spread over many years, this requires quite a big acqusition budget. Another 50 Rafales (even if you have infrastructure in place) could be close to $8 Billion.

I can help with this Yasser

Right now the Indian defense at 2% of gdp is 80 billion dollars approx .
Around 20/25 billion of this is capital expenditure
That means about 7 billion dollars is air force allocation alone per year
Take indian rapid gdp growth then air force will send comfortable 100 billion dollars on new weapons alone coming decade with ease ...

Mki upgrades 10 billion
Lca mark 1a 15 billion
C295 orders 5 billion
Helicopters LCA dhruv 5 billion
Future Sam system 5 billion
Radars 5 billion
Predator drones 5,= billion

This still leaves whopping 50 billion dolarsx
That 50 billion is ample more than sample to sign Rafale and mark 2 fighters LCA when they arrive

Fyi Yasser India will guarantee have the third biggest gdp and military budget o earth in 5 to 7 years
I estimate by 2030 gdp will be 6/7 trillion and military budget 130/150 billion dollars a year

 

[Yasser76]

I can help with this Yasser

Right now the Indian defense at 2% of gdp is 80 billion dollars approx .
Around 20/25 billion of this is capital expenditure
That means about 7 billion dollars is air force allocation alone per year
Take indian rapid gdp growth then air force will send comfortable 100 billion dollars on new weapons alone coming decade with ease ...

Mki upgrades 10 billion
Lca mark 1a 15 billion
C295 orders 5 billion
Helicopters LCA dhruv 5 billion
Future Sam system 5 billion
Radars 5 billion
Predator drones 5,= billion

This still leaves whopping 50 billion dolarsx
That 50 billion is ample more than sample to sign Rafale and mark 2 fighters LCA when they arrive

Fyi Yasser India will guarantee have the third biggest gdp and military budget o earth in 5 to 7 years
I estimate by 2030 gdp will be 6/7 trillion and military budget 130/150 billion dollars a year

Unsure where you learnt maths from. 7 Billion a year will barely cover everything you have listed, you have also missed out many IAF projects. These are fantasy numbers and wishful thinking. Also as the stand off with China continues Opex will eat into capex. No Air Force, not even supa dupa IAF is immune to budget restraints. Look at how long they are dragging price negotiations out over vital equipment. It proves money is an issue. That also explains why numbers of purchased of expensive US equipment was very limited

 

[Guru Dutt]

Unsure where you learnt maths from. 7 Billion a year will barely cover everything you have listed, you have also missed out many IAF projects. These are fantasy numbers and wishful thinking. Also as the stand off with China continues Opex will eat into capex. No Air Force, not even supa dupa IAF is immune to budget restraints. Look at how long they are dragging price negotiations out over vital equipment. It proves money is an issue. That also explains why numbers of purchased of expensive US equipment was very limited

well forget everything we have still 10-12 billion US dollars as capital expanditure ammount for big ticket purcaheses and they are not just for PAF or PLAAF but for owr own startegic goals

besides that China no matter what cannot bring its entire PLAAF or PLA might to Tibbet platue it has to keep its 80% forces on its eastern wing as it has already been locked with likes of Vietnam , Taiwan or Japan & Phillipines all backed by US Navy and Air Force with Four carrier battle groups in the area and down into indian ocean no matter how strong it gets it still has to get past Adaman Nicobar island chains even if it somehow gets a position of power in malackka startaits

and after Andaman and nicobar is Bay Of bengal and then is Indian mainland with more than 6 major air bases with Su30 MKIs which can eaily take of with full weapons & Fuel load while chinese jets on its carriers cannot forget the support systems indian fighters will have or those all kinds of long and very long range air and ground launched cruise missiles

but even if you forget all that do you really think Chinese are such fools that they will leave there secure south china sea for indian ocean to challenge india in Indian ocean or bring there air force and army in tibbet platue where deu to extreme hight and low oxygen niether there Tanks can run with full load nor there aircrafts or hellicopters ..... just to attack india to save pakistan..... really you must be smoking some real good stuff ... apun ko bhi wo eich mangta hai