Saudi Arabia Armed forces

[Fatman17]

AN IN-DEPTH LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA'S ADVANCED F-15SA FLEET​

1. Aviation Features
2. An in-depth look at Saudi Arabia's advanced F-15SA fleet

By Khalem Chapman 15th January 2021
FEATURE

Key.Aero provides an in-depth look at Saudi Arabia’s Boeing F-15SA (Saudi Advanced) Strike Eagle fleet and charts the delivery of its 84 new-build multi-role fighters over the last five years.
On December 10, 2020, the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) received its final batch of new-build F-15SAs. The delivery marked the completion of a Foreign Military Sale (FMS) contract – worth US$29.4bn – for 84 examples of the advanced multi-role fighter, which was signed in October 2010.

A USAF-operated Boeing KC-135R Stratotanker refuels a Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) Boeing F-15SA during a joint multinational training event in the US Central Command's (CENTCOM's) area of responsibility in the Middle East on September 17, 2020. USAF/Staff Sgt Justin Parsons

By the time that this FMS contract was signed, Saudi Arabia was already a well-established Eagle operator in the Middle East, having employed the F-15C/D since 1982 and the F-15S (Saudi) Strike Eagle since 1995. The 2010 deal was an exceptionally large one, covering not only the delivery of new-build aircraft, but also the upgrade of 70 examples of the RSAF’s F-15S fleet to F-15SA standard. It also included a vast amount of related systems, munitions and equipment.

The F-15SA
Boeing’s F-15SA is an advanced version of the Strike Eagle, incorporating features from, and building on South Korea's F-15K Slam Eagle, Singapore's F-15SG and the company's F-15SE Silent Eagle. It boasts a number of enhanced systems and structural improvements when compared to the basic F-15S used by the RSAF.
Powered by two GE Aviation F110-GE-129 afterburning turbofans, the F-15SA employs a fly-by-wire flight control system (which allows the reactivation of additional underwing pylons - stations one and nine), advanced cockpit displays and Raytheon’s AN/APG-63(V)3 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The aircraft has a structurally redesigned wing, and a new nose barrel.
It also features a BAE Systems-developed digital electronic warfare system/common missile warning system (DEWS/CMWS); Lockheed Martin’s AN/AAS-42 infrared search and track (IRST) system; a Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) and a Link-16 multifunctional information distribution system (MIDS). The platform can be equipped with Lockheed Martin’s AN/AAQ-33 Sniper advanced targeting pod (ATP), as well as the firm’s AN/AAQ-13 Low Altitude Navigation and Targeting Infrared for Night (LANTIRN) system.

Ground crews prepare an RSAF-operated F-15SA for a mission during Exercise Red Flag 19-2 at Nellis Air Force Base (AFB), Nevada, on March 19, 2019. USAF/Senior Airman Isaiah Soliz

In terms of munitions, the F-15SA can employ a number of weapons when configured for both air-to-air and air-to-surface operations. In an aerial combat role, it can carry the AIM-9X Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missile and the AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The multi-role fighter is also fitted with a single M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon.
For air-to-surface engagements, the aircraft can be fitted with the AGM-84H/K Stand-off Land Attack Missile-Expanded Response (SLAM-ER) precision-guided, air-launched cruise missile. It can also carry the AGM-88 High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile (HARM); GBU-24 Paveway III laser-guided bomb and Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), as well as Mk.82 500lb and Mk.84 2,000lb general purpose bombs.
According to Boeing, its family of advanced F-15s – which includes Saudi Arabia’s SA variant – can carry up to 12 air-to-air missiles and 24 air-to-ground munitions.

The F-15SR
Despite having now received its full complement of new-build F-15SAs from Boeing, the RSAF will continue to receive examples of the advanced Eagle. These will be aircraft converted from their previous F-15S standard under the F-15SR (Saudi Retrofit) programme, using new structural sub assemblies produced in-Kingdom. In RSAF service, the aircraft that undergo this upgrade are likely to be designated the F-15SR.
The first two F-15S pattern aircraft to undergo this conversion were returned to the RSAF in December 2016, when they were delivered to Saudi Arabia alongside the initial pair of new-build F-15SAs. These two aircraft were converted to SA standard at Boeing’s facility in St Louis, Missouri – one by Boeing personnel and the other by a Saudi team from Alsalam Aerospace Industries (AAI).
Only the first two conversions were to take place in the US, with the remaining examples undergoing the process locally in Saudi Arabia. Due to recent losses, the number of F-15S’ that will be upgraded to SA standard has dropped to 68.

The RSAF's existing fleet of 68 Boeing F-15S multi-role fighters will be upgraded to SA standard. The final aircraft to undergo the conversion is expected to have been handed over to the air arm by June 2026. South Carolina National Guard/Staff Sgt Erica Jaros

AAI accepted its first F-15S for in-country conversion on October 21, 2018 and anticipates that the final F-15SR will be handed over to the RSAF by June 2026. The first locally upgraded aircraft (serial 5502, formerly 93-0854) completed its first functional check flight (FCF) from Riyadh International Airport in Saudi Arabia on January 15, 2020 – a year ago today.
The Saudi-based company has now received at least ten F-15S’ from the RSAF and will continue to convert them to F-15SR-standard until all 66 aircraft have undergone the process. Under the programme, AAI is responsible for the upgrade and also manufactures new wings, forward fuselages, pylons and adaptors for the F-15s. The production of some specific avionics components is being covered by Riyadh-based Advanced Electronics Company (AEC).
Interestingly, some 50 F-15S wing sets are to be sold to the USAF to support its own F-15E modernisation effort. Realising that the RSAF F-15S to SA conversion would entail the removal and disposal of the F-15S aircraft's existing low-hour, low-fatigue wings, the US Air Force Life Cycle Management Center (AFLCMC) negotiated to buy eight wing sets initially. These first eight F-15S wing sets were delivered to Robins Air Force Base (AFB), Georgia, in August 2020, where they were refurbished prior to installation on USAF F-15Es. The USAF has declared a requirement for at least 42 further otherwise redundant wing sets.

 

[Fatman17]

RSAF F-15SA/F-15SR Serials
The RSAF received its first two F-15SAs in December 2016 and the remaining 82 aircraft were delivered over the following four years. In 2017, the RSAF accepted 26 more examples, followed by 21 in 2018 and 25 in 2019. The service received its final eight aircraft in 2020, with two F-15SAs remaining in the US with Boeing.

 

[Fatman17]

Key.Aero would like to thank Jon Lake for the delivery information.

Topics​

Read more about

• Boeing
• F-15 Strike Eagle
• F-15 Eagle
• Royal Saudi Air Force
• Saudi Arabia
• Middle East
• Aircraft Serials

Originally published in Key.Aero​

 

[The SC]

Great information The Saudi Silent Hunter laser defensive system, since it entered service, has shot down more than 30 hostile targets on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, making it the most effective country in the world that has used this system.

Saudi version

 

[Fatman17]

SAUDI ARABIA’S TORNADO IDS AND ADV VARIANTS – DESERT KINGDOM WARRIORS​

1. Aviation Features
2. Saudi Arabia’s Tornado IDS and ADV variants – desert kingdom warriors

By Jon Lake 20th October 2023
FEATURE

Saudi Arabia was the only country outside Europe to buy the Tornado. In 2015, Jon Lake reviewed the service careers of the IDS and ADV variants in the desert kingdom.
More than a dozen nations expressed interest in acquiring the Tornado but eventually only one export order was achieved. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia took delivery of 120 aircraft as part of the Al-Yamamah (Dove of Peace) agreement which earned the UK more than £40bn. At the time, this single order was the biggest arms deal struck between two nations.
The Saudi order for Tornados was announced after the failure of export campaigns in Canada, Australia, Iraq (defeated by sanctions following the Iran-Iraq war) and Oman, which actually placed an order for eight Tornado F2s in August 1985, though this was subsequently cancelled.
The UK and Saudi Arabian governments signed a memorandum of understanding on September 25, 1985 with the initial phase including 48 Tornado IDSs and 24 Tornado ADVs. The second part involved the delivery of a further 48 Tornado IDSs, bringing the total to 120 aircraft. Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, the Saudi Minister of Defence and Aviation, and Sir Colin Chandler, the head of the UK Government’s Defence Export Sales Organisation (DESO), signed the definitive Al-Yamamah contract in February 1986, the same month that the first Saudi Tornado (CS001, s/n 701) made its maiden flight. This took place on February 7. The initial four aircraft (including one twin-sticker, 704) were ferried to King Abdul Aziz Air Base, Dhahran via Akrotiri, leaving British Aerospace’s Warton factory in Lancashire (where the Saudi aircraft were built) on March 26 that year.

A RSAF Tornado IDS lifts off from RAF Lossiemouth during Exercise Saudi Green Flag 07, sorties were flown from August 28 to September 7, 2007. Key-Mark Ayton
Continuing instability in the Middle East highlighted the Royal Saudi Air Force’s (RSAF) requirement for improved air-to-ground capabilities, while the size of the armies fielded by Iran and Iraq in the war between those nations demonstrated a real need for long-range interdiction capabilities, as well as for close air support and ground attack.
Saudi pilots evaluated and flew the Tornado at RAF Honington, Suffolk, in 1984, finding an aircraft that was mature and impressive – already in frontline service with all three partner nations, the UK, West Germany and Italy. The RSAF was especially impressed by 617 Sqn achieving second place in the USAF’s Strategic Air Command Giant Voice bombing competition.
The 48 Al Yamamah I IDS aircraft comprised 28 of the same standard as the RAF GR1 – 14 with dual controls and six equivalent to the reconnaissance-capable GR1A. The Saudis required early delivery of the first 20 aircraft, so 18 were diverted from the RAF’s Batch 5 that was then in-build at Warton and two from the Luftwaffe. The aircraft were fitted with a MIL STD1553B databus, the new Litef Spirit III computer, an integrated ECM transmitter, chaff/flare dispenser and RWR, as well as the LRMTS introduced in Batch 3 and the Mk.103 engines that were introduced with Batch 4. The remaining Saudi IDS aircraft were from Batch 7.
Al Yamamah included a significant in-kingdom training package but the accelerated delivery of early aircraft meant an initial cadre of Saudi aircrew was converted to the Tornado in the UK. Four RSAF crews joined the RAF Cottesmore-based Tri-national Tornado Training Establishment’s (TTTE) No 73 Course in October 1985. A further Saudi aircrew followed over the next year.
The first unit to operate the IDS variant was the 7th Squadron at King Abdul Aziz Air Base in Dhahran, which created an operational conversion training syllabus. It also began to develop servicing and engineering processes and procedures, tactics and doctrine, building to a strength of 20 aircraft by October 8, 1987. The desert conditions and harsh climate caused a few problems – including a glass-like build up on fan blades caused by gypsum dust ingestion. The issue was solved around the time of Gulf War 1 with Iraq, and involved a change in blade design.

Part of the Al-Yamamah deal involved the sale of 24 Tornado ADVs. This aircraft is carrying four Sky Flash and four Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. BAE Systems

Tornado ADV​

With an initial IDS unit operational, Saudi attention turned to the ADV. Twenty-four of the fighter variant (including six twin-stickers) were diverted from the RAF’s Batch 6 production allocation to ensure rapid delivery. These were equivalent to the RAF's Tornado F3 Stage 1 aircraft, with a new F/A-18 stick top for improved HOTAS and with the improved Type Z AI-24 Foxhunter radar. An initial batch of ten RSAF crews underwent conversion training with 229 OCU at RAF Coningsby, Lincolnshire, from mid-1998. The first Saudi ADV DS001 (s/n 2905) undertook its maiden flight on December 1, 1988. The first four aircraft DS001 and DS002 (s/ns 2905 and 2906) and DT001 and DT002 (s/ns 2901 and 2902) were formally accepted by General Ahmed Bin Ibrahim Al Behery, RSAF Commander, in a ceremony at Warton on February 9, 1989, before leaving for Saudi Arabia on March 20.
Between March and September 1989, the RSAF received four extra IDS aircraft for the 7th Squadron, giving it 23 aircraft (one was lost on August 28 that year on approach to Dhahran).
Eight more ADVs were delivered during this period bringing the 29th Squadron (the first RSAF Tornado ADV unit) up to its planned strength of 12 aircraft.
The next priority was to form a second ADV unit, the 34th Squadron based at Dhahran, which received its first aircraft on November 15, 1989. Its 12th and last left Warton on October 8, 1990. By this time, a second IDS unit had started to form – this being the 66th Squadron at King Khalid Air Base in Khamis Mushayt (home of the 5th Wing), which stood up in the summer of 1990, and received its first pair of aircraft in early August.

The first four Saudi Tornado ADVs were handed over on February 9, 1989 at a ceremony at Warton. Geoff Lee

Liberating Kuwait​

When Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990 the build-up of new Saudi squadrons was halted. All IDS aircraft and crews were pooled at Khamis Mushayt under the 7th Squadron, operating an estimated 26 IDS aircraft (23 from the 7th Squadron and three from the fledgling 66th Squadron).
On the air defence side of the new Tornado force, the 34th Squadron crews joined those of the 29th to form a combined 24-aircraft ADV unit, which flew operational combat air patrol missions under Operation Desert Shield.
One of the 7th Squadron IDS aircraft (s/n 769) crashed on Half Moon Bay range in Saudi Arabia on November 29, 1990 during training for the war that was by then clearly inevitable. Two further aircraft destined for the 66th Squadron were delivered on January 18, just after the conflict began.
The Tornado IDS aircraft of the enlarged 7th Squadron flew their first combat mission on the night of January 17, 1991 attacking Iraqi airfields with JP233 airfield attack weapons as well as ‘slick’ and retarded 1,000lb (454kg) bombs. Typically formations carried a mix of weapons, with one pair tossing 1,000lb bombs on to the airfield defences to ‘keep heads down’ as the aircraft carrying JP233 attacked runways. These weapons required the aircraft to fly low, straight and level while the various sub-munitions were dispensed. Throughout the war, the Saudi aircraft tended to rely on the RSAF’s own KC-130 tankers, whose low speed and relatively low altitude made it difficult to integrate the Saudi Tornados into coalition packages.

A Saudi Tornado IDS taxiing at RAF Lossiemouth with its air-to-air refuelling probe and air brakes extended. Key-Mark Ayton
One 7th Squadron Tornado (s/n 765) was lost on the night of January 19/20. The official reason given was that the aircraft ran out of fuel a few miles short of the runway at its diversion airfield after a support tanker failed to make its planned refuelling rendezvous. Subsequently useable spare parts were salvaged and then cosmetically restored to serve as the gateguard, mounted on a plinth outside the main entrance to King Abdul Aziz Air Base in Dhahran.
The 7th Squadron flew 590 operational interdiction sorties and 75 offensive counter air sorties during Desert Storm, switching from low-level anti-airfield attacks at much the same time as the RAF Tornados. This released them for precision attacks against enemy lines of communication, hardened aircraft shelters and other targets.
The Saudi Tornado ADVs flew 451 sorties during Desert Storm, and though the lack of JTIDS restricted their operations to Saudi airspace, they proved effective.
Combat experience in Desert Storm led to some changes to Saudi Tornado plans. Though it did not happen overnight, the second ADV squadron was disbanded, its aircraft and crews being absorbed into an enlarged 29th Squadron in 1992.
There were also changes to the planned second batch of Tornados that were to be ordered under Al Yamamah II. The original memorandum of understanding signed in 1988 (and subsequently cancelled in July 1990) had covered the purchase of 12 more IDS aircraft and 36 ADVs (bringing the Saudi total to 60 of each type). When the deal was re-struck in July 1993, it was for 48 IDS aircraft (including ten with dual controls and six equivalent to GR1As), with no ADVs. The Tornado ADV was still seen as being useful, delivering an unmatched BVR capability, but it was perceived that a smaller ADV force, augmented by a more versatile and more traditional fighter, would better meet Saudi requirements.

Two Tornado ADVs of the 29th Squadron conduct a pairs take-off at Dhahran in 1996. Geoff Lee
Attention turned to the US to acquire a dual-role version of the F-15 to augment the Tornado interdictors. The F-15S was ordered with 72 aircraft procured.
Deliveries of the remaining Al Yamamah I Tornado IDSs to the 66th Squadron continued between July 1991 and January 1992. The first Al Yamamah II aircraft was delivered in October 1996, becoming the initial aircraft for the newly formed 75th Squadron at Dhahran. A new 83rd Squadron formed at Khamis Mushayt and received its first aircraft in November that year.

A Tornado IDS carrying live ‘dumb’ bombs. Key Collection

 

[Fatman17]

The 66th Squadron ended up with 34 aircraft, including all 12 of the recce-capable Tornados.
Secrecy has surrounded RSAF operations, so the exact timing of some elements in the Saudi Tornado story remain unclear. It is known some Tornados remained at Khamis Mushayt until at least 2001, but that they were replaced there by the F-15S aircraft of the 6th and 55th Squadrons, displacing the 66th and 83rd Squadrons which moved to the 11th Wing at Dhahran. It is believed there were four Tornado squadrons at Dhahran for some time, but that the 66th Squadron subsequently disbanded. Its aircraft may not have been re-serialled for some time after the unit’s disappearance.

A Saudi IDS enters the runway at RAF Lossiemouth during Exercise Saudi Green Flag 07. Key-Mark Ayton
As for the ADV, the 29th Squadron moved from Dhahran to King Faisal Air Base in Tabuk in 1999. The introduction of the AIM-120 AMRAAM on the F-15 ended the ADV’s BVR advantage and forced the RSAF to decide whether they would be upgraded or replaced. In the end, the Saudi decision was that the type be retired and the 29th Squadron stopped flying in the summer of 2006. Its aircraft were stored at Tabuk before being traded back to BAE Systems as part of the Eurofighter Typhoon deal, after which they were stripped for spares. Just two aircraft survived to be preserved – one in the new RSAF museum in Riyadh and one at Tabuk.
Though the IDS force was reduced from four to three squadrons, this was more due to steady attrition than to any dissatisfaction with the type. Indeed, following experience with both the Tornado and the F-15S, the RSAF discontinued low-level mission training on the US-built aircraft assigning the role to the Tornado exclusively, due to its superior low-altitude flight performance and combat effectiveness in that regime.

The RSAF Tornado IDS fleet has been adopting a grey scheme in place of the desert camouflage. These Tornados and Typhoons are lined up at RAF Coningsby during Exercise Saudi British Green Flag in September 2013. Key Collection

New capabilities​

RAF Tornado operational experience was watched closely by the RSAF, especially the switch from low- to medium-level operations. The RSAF opted to upgrade its IDS Tornados to a similar configuration to that of the RAF's newly-upgraded GR4s. A BAE Systems press release stated the RSAF was aiming to: "equip the IDS fleet with a range of new precision-guided weapons and enhanced targeting equipment, in many cases common with those systems already fielded by the UK's Tornado GR4s".
In September 2006, the Saudi Government signed a £2.5bn contract with BAE Systems to upgrade its surviving Tornado aircraft (then believed to total 84 IDS aircraft) with the aim of keeping them in service and relevant until 2020.

Tornado IDS 6627 on the runway at Warton where the aircraft were built. Key Collection
The Tornado Sustainment Programme (TSP) was to be split into Phase 1 and 2, with both planned to be incorporated by 2013.
Phase 1 of the upgrade concentrated on a cockpit modernisation, with improved avionics and displays, a modern communications fit and GPS navigation. Phase 2 added provision for advanced weapons and sensors: including the Thales Damocles targeting pod, Raytheon Paveway and Enhanced Paveway LGBs, MBDA Storm Shadow cruise missile, Brimstone anti-armour missile and the Diehl Defence IRIS-T air-to-air missile.
In April 2005, three RSAF Tornados were returned to BAE Systems at Warton to serve as prototypes for the TSP programme. Aircraft 6606 was a standard IDS (becoming ZK113 for test flying in the UK), 6631 (ZH917) was a recce-configured IDS(R), and 7503 was a dual-control IDS(T), which did not receive a British military serial for its brief period of post upgrade test flying. Tornado 6606/ZK113 made its first flight after upgrade modifications on January 5, 2006. Aircraft 6606 is believed to have returned to Saudi Arabia in December last year and 6631 in April 2013.

The Royal Saudi Air Force has watched with interest how the RAF has developed the tactics and capabilities of its Tornados. Much of the upgrade work undertaken on Saudi IDSs is similar to that applied to the GR4s. Tornados from both countries flew together from RAF Coningsby during Exercise Saudi-British Green Flag in September 2013. Key Collection
Another batch of three Tornado IDSs (6611, 6612 and 6613) arrived at Warton on December 15, 2006 to become the first ‘production’ TSP upgrade aircraft.
Aircraft 6612 was the first example to complete the upgrade and returned to Saudi Arabia in December 2007, followed by 6613 in January 2008 and 6611 in May that same year. These aircraft all returned to Saudi Arabia wearing their original ‘sand and stone’ desert camouflage, but the IDS(T) prototype 7503 (which returned to Saudi Arabia in 2009) wore a new, toned-down overall grey colour scheme similar to that used on RAF GR4s. This has since become the most common colour scheme seen on Saudi Tornados.
Subsequent upgrade work on the rest of the fleet was carried out in Saudi Arabia. The exact number of aircraft upgraded is unknown. One BAE Systems press release gave a figure of 73 aircraft but it is not clear whether this included the three ‘production’ conversions undertaken in the UK, let alone the three ‘prototype’ upgrades.

Saudi Tornado IDS, 8319, at Warton prior to delivery. BAE Systems
More recently 760 arrived at Warton on April 3 last year and 703 followed suit on December 19.
As the RSAF has increasingly taken on more of an operational commitment, the Saudi Tornados have found themselves flying more combat missions. In November 2009, they undertook air raids against Shia Houthi insurgents in northern Yemen. This marked the first time the air force had undertaken active military operations over hostile territory since Operation Desert Storm in 1991. RSAF Tornados were in action again in September 2014, flying strikes against IS targets in Syria. Most recently, in March 2015, RSAF Tornados were among the aircraft used in the campaign against Houthi rebels in Yemen.

• For lots more on the Tornado, click here

Topics​

Read more about

• Royal Saudi Air Force
• Panavia Tornado

Originally published in Key.Aero​

​

 

[GoMig-21]

Ground crews prepare an RSAF-operated F-15SA for a mission during Exercise Red Flag 19-2 at Nellis Air Force Base (AFB), Nevada, on March 19, 2019.

SC, personally I wouldn't mind seeing anything remotely close to these but with AMRAAMs and HARMs in the EAF. I'll take the AIM-9Ms or Ls instead of the 9X that's no problem. I'd negotiate the usage restrictions they can't be any worse than the F-16s @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose , right? And those we basically have the entire Mediterranean all the way to Greece even Italy & Portugal and all the way down the Red Sea to all points in Saudi to Yemen. What's wrong with that, right?

I forgot all points Libya also.

 

[The SC]

SC, personally I wouldn't mind seeing anything remotely close to these but with AMRAAMs and HARMs in the EAF. I'll take the AIM-9Ms or Ls instead of the 9X that's no problem. I'd negotiate the usage restrictions they can't be any worse than the F-16s @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose , right? And those we basically have the entire Mediterranean all the way to Greece even Italy & Portugal and all the way down the Red Sea to all points in Saudi to Yemen. What's wrong with that, right?

I forgot all points Libya also.

If it comes to the EAF with all its weapons and a few restrictions why not..

 

[GoMig-21]

If it comes to the EAF with all its weapons and a few restrictions why not..

Saudiya has just done it all the right way from the start. Between the Tornado, Eurofighter typhoon and the F-15s with the latter being the primary workhorse and a large portion of the what, 270+ F-15s? 70 something or maybe even more I forget are only 5 year-old S models being upgraded to SEs ON TOP of another 72 brand spanking new SEs?! With the EFTs and Tornados, it's just a perfect combination.

Then there's the strong possibility of Rafales although I have a strooooong feeling that once the normalized relations get back on track, the US might just ok the F-35. I truly believe there is a huge possibility of this happening because the US is clearly seeing that it's losing the ME and especially SA with the latter's constant pandering to the zionists and especially with MBS looking to Russia but ESPECIALLY China. China is the new Russia of the cold war to the US in the ME and the it will do whatever it must to prevent that, and it'll start with the F-35. It'll be between that and the Rafale to add to that killer beastmode RSAF.

 

[The SC]

Saudiya has just done it all the right way from the start. Between the Tornado, Eurofighter typhoon and the F-15s with the latter being the primary workhorse and a large portion of the what, 270+ F-15s? 70 something or maybe even more I forget are only 5 year-old S models being upgraded to SEs ON TOP of another 72 brand spanking new SEs?! With the EFTs and Tornados, it's just a perfect combination.

Then there's the strong possibility of Rafales although I have a strooooong feeling that once the normalized relations get back on track, the US might just ok the F-35. I truly believe there is a huge possibility of this happening because the US is clearly seeing that it's losing the ME and especially SA with the latter's constant pandering to the zionists and especially with MBS looking to Russia but ESPECIALLY China. China is the new Russia of the cold war to the US in the ME and the it will do whatever it must to prevent that, and it'll start with the F-35. It'll be between that and the Rafale to add to that killer beastmode RSAF.

It wasn't easy bro.. at first the US congress refused to sell the F-15s to KSA..that is why it bought the Tornados.. after which came the accord with conditions that the F-15 can't be at Tabook in the north _too close to Israel_..KSA played the game for a while and then stationed them right in Tabook..HaHaHa!

Not sure if KSA really wants the F-35.. it made it clear before that it was aiming for the F-22.. but hey if the F-35 comes.. why not.. it should come in big numbers though .. because KSA is huge and the F-35 is a mono-engine fighter aircraft.. Saudis operate only double engine..as you know..

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

SC, personally I wouldn't mind seeing anything remotely close to these but with AMRAAMs and HARMs in the EAF. I'll take the AIM-9Ms or Ls instead of the 9X that's no problem. I'd negotiate the usage restrictions they can't be any worse than the F-16s @Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose , right? And those we basically have the entire Mediterranean all the way to Greece even Italy & Portugal and all the way down the Red Sea to all points in Saudi to Yemen. What's wrong with that, right?

I forgot all points Libya also.

Me personally, I’d just get another aircraft that we’re familiar with and have state of the art bvraam technology

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

It wasn't easy bro.. at first the US congress refused to sell the F-15s to KSA..that is why it bought the Tornados.. after which came the accord with conditions that the F-15 can't be at Tabook in the north _too close to Israel_..KSA played the game for a while and then stationed them right in Tabook..HaHaHa!

Not sure if KSA really wants the F-35.. it made it clear before that it was aiming for the F-22.. but hey if the F-35 comes.. why not.. it should come in big numbers though .. because KSA is huge and the F-35 is a mono-engine fighter aircraft.. Saudis operate only double engine..as you know..

Same with how the US was pushing the f5 tiger but at the time I think it was president sadat who refused the aircraft and purchased the first batch of French mirage 2000s. The French were basically saying screw it, we need to compete and have more sales. When America saw that it eventually had to settle for Egypt getting the falcon, which btw, those falcons were originally for imperial Iran under Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Then the revolution took place, and thus was redirected to Egypt. Still came with shitty conditions, but you live and learn.

 

[GoMig-21]

It wasn't easy bro.. at first the US congress refused to sell the F-15s to KSA..that is why it bought the Tornados.. after which came the accord with conditions that the F-15 can't be at Tabook in the north _too close to Israel_..KSA played the game for a while and then stationed them right in Tabook..HaHaHa!

Not sure if KSA really wants the F-35.. it made it clear before that it was aiming for the F-22.. but hey if the F-35 comes.. why not.. it should come in big numbers though .. because KSA is huge and the F-35 is a mono-engine fighter aircraft.. Saudis operate only double engine..as you know..

As if stationing the F-15s in any other base in Saudiya besides Tabook would've made any difference?!?! That's like one of the silliest things I've heard lol. You know what it reminds me of? A cop who asks you for your ID because he thinks you're up to something and runs your info looking for anything and everything to give you a ticket or even arrest you and finds nothing, then starts lecturing you and giving you directives and you turning around and tell him to go **** himself LMAO! Love it.

Me personally, I’d just get another aircraft that we’re familiar with and have state of the art bvraam technology

What do you have in mind that would be in the same class as the F-15/Su-35? I think that's the pinch the EAF is in. Always searching for that elusive heavy fighter. So close yet so far away bint el kalb! lol

Same with how the US was pushing the f5 tiger but at the time I think it was president sadat who refused the aircraft and purchased the first batch of French mirage 2000s. The French were basically saying screw it, we need to compete and have more sales. When America saw that it eventually had to settle for Egypt getting the falcon, which btw, those falcons were originally for imperial Iran under Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Then the revolution took place, and thus was redirected to Egypt. Still came with shitty conditions, but you live and learn.

Those 75 F-16A block 15 that were slated for Iran actually ended up in Israel in the demon's hands. Those were the ones they flew to Iraq and bombed the Osirak nuclear reactor the French were building for Saddam Hussein. That's what instigated the whole Sadat/US/F-16/F-5/Mirage 2K drama because now Sadat, at the behest of Hosni Mubarak being the former Air Force commander who was aware of how cutting edge the F-16 was at the time convinced Sadat to insist on the F-16s and if not, go with the brand new Mirage 2K despite Sadat really admiring the F-5 and he himself was the one who originally requested it. Once convinced by Mubarak, Sadat changed his mind and told the Americans he wanted the Falcons instead and they said no (because the demons had them) only F-5s were allowed even offered the more advanced F-20 Tigershark which prompted Sadat to go to France for the 20 Mirage 2Ks instead. Crazy story but you're 100% on the money it's similar to Saudiya and the Tornado/F-15 business.

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

As if stationing the F-15s in any other base in Saudiya besides Tabook would've made any difference?!?! That's like one of the silliest things I've heard lol. You know what it reminds me of? A cop who asks you for your ID because he thinks you're up to something and runs your info looking for anything and everything to give you a ticket or even arrest you and finds nothing, then starts lecturing you and giving you directives and you turning around and tell him to go **** himself LMAO! Love it.



What do you have in mind that would be in the same class as the F-15/Su-35? I think that's the pinch the EAF is in. Always searching for that elusive heavy fighter. So close yet so far away bint el kalb! lol



Those 75 F-16A block 15 that were slated for Iran actually ended up in Israel in the demon's hands. Those were the ones they flew to Iraq and bombed the Osirak nuclear reactor the French were building for Saddam Hussein. That's what instigated the whole Sadat/US/F-16/F-5/Mirage 2K drama because now Sadat, at the behest of Hosni Mubarak being the former Air Force commander who was aware of how cutting edge the F-16 was at the time convinced Sadat to insist on the F-16s and if not, go with the brand new Mirage 2K despite Sadat really admiring the F-5 and he himself was the one who originally requested it. Once convinced by Mubarak, Sadat changed his mind and told the Americans he wanted the Falcons instead and they said no (because the demons had them) only F-5s were allowed even offered the more advanced F-20 Tigershark which prompted Sadat to go to France for the 20 Mirage 2Ks instead. Crazy story but you're 100% on the money it's similar to Saudiya and the Tornado/F-15 business.

Well we have couple of options for aircraft’s we can supplement, but bear in mind they aren’t heavy crafts.

Dessault Rafale: I don’t have to explain why. Continue to stack up on those dragons

Eurofighter Typhoon: lots of spare parts interchangeable between crafts and is also a delta wing design. Historically we’ve done well with delta wings on all fronts, so maintenance, familiarity is automatically generally good, especially sharing munitions with one another, no need to waste time on an advanced mechanism needed to fire amraams from a typhoon when mica ngs and meteors go on the same platform. Also saves money with less types of bvraams you pay for.

Mirage 2000: and advanced upgraded versions. can replace most if not all the f16s we have for multirole capabilities, while maintaining a huge fleet of committed attack and bomber crafts. Super knowing of the aircraft and its ins and outs. Special tactics can in theory further help these aircraft’s ability and longevity in EAF service. It can especially serve as demonstrators for domestic Egyptian upgrades should they decide to go that route.

MiG 35: assuming caatsa won’t be implemented, for the love of god get that zhuk aesa radar as soon as possible and install them in those mig 29m2s. All the flaws in the earlier mig 29s have been fully worked out on. Though understandable if delayed since Russia is fighting a war and is limited on funds.

But if you really want a heavy class fighter craft in your arsenal there is the Chinese j15:

An interim for a 5th gen aircraft carrier fighter before the fc 31 or j35 becomes mass produced. Uses state of the art Chinese tech but reliable and powerful Russian engines. If Egyptian pilots are already formerly trained on the su 35 then it shouldn’t be too far fetched for this craft to be on the easier side for them to master. J15 was after all based off the su33, which in return, is also similar to the newer su 35. Do know that the j15 also has components from the earlier j11, so if china wanted to upgrade more of them to the 15 spec, there’s the possibility for that to happen and sell them for export. Plus Egypt is talking about purchasing new Chinese hardware anyways, so, possibilities. And to top it all off with a cherry on a sundae, it makes it easier to get the pl-15 bvraam. Which is better then any amraam variant out in service now. Plus china wouldn’t sell you dead rockets without being able to operate them anyways, so they’d most definitely follow up with installing interchangeable mech systems that can be installed on the j15 and other crafts to fire them as well. Could even lead to talks for j10c if we were desperate enough for an advanced craft.

Fc 31 project: this is under the full assumption that china and Egypt are REALLY talking about the potential to give tot of this soon to be 5th gen aircraft. If that successfully happens, then you really don’t need large numbers of heavy fighter crafts, if in theory, at all for some time. This one is too self explanatory.

You also have advanced su30s that incorporate tech from the 35 variant, but again, must sneak passed caatsa.

 

[The SC]

Well we have couple of options for aircraft’s we can supplement, but bear in mind they aren’t heavy crafts.

Dessault Rafale: I don’t have to explain why. Continue to stack up on those dragons

Eurofighter Typhoon: lots of spare parts interchangeable between crafts and is also a delta wing design. Historically we’ve done well with delta wings on all fronts, so maintenance, familiarity is automatically generally good, especially sharing munitions with one another, no need to waste time on an advanced mechanism needed to fire amraams from a typhoon when mica ngs and meteors go on the same platform. Also saves money with less types of bvraams you pay for.

Mirage 2000: and advanced upgraded versions. can replace most if not all the f16s we have for multirole capabilities, while maintaining a huge fleet of committed attack and bomber crafts. Super knowing of the aircraft and its ins and outs. Special tactics can in theory further help these aircraft’s ability and longevity in EAF service. It can especially serve as demonstrators for domestic Egyptian upgrades should they decide to go that route.

MiG 35: assuming caatsa won’t be implemented, for the love of god get that zhuk aesa radar as soon as possible and install them in those mig 29m2s. All the flaws in the earlier mig 29s have been fully worked out on. Though understandable if delayed since Russia is fighting a war and is limited on funds.

But if you really want a heavy class fighter craft in your arsenal there is the Chinese j15:

An interim for a 5th gen aircraft carrier fighter before the fc 31 or j35 becomes mass produced. Uses state of the art Chinese tech but reliable and powerful Russian engines. If Egyptian pilots are already formerly trained on the su 35 then it shouldn’t be too far fetched for this craft to be on the easier side for them to master. J15 was after all based off the su33, which in return, is also similar to the newer su 35. Do know that the j15 also has components from the earlier j11, so if china wanted to upgrade more of them to the 15 spec, there’s the possibility for that to happen and sell them for export. Plus Egypt is talking about purchasing new Chinese hardware anyways, so, possibilities. And to top it all off with a cherry on a sundae, it makes it easier to get the pl-15 bvraam. Which is better then any amraam variant out in service now. Plus china wouldn’t sell you dead rockets without being able to operate them anyways, so they’d most definitely follow up with installing interchangeable mech systems that can be installed on the j15 and other crafts to fire them as well. Could even lead to talks for j10c if we were desperate enough for an advanced craft.

Fc 31 project: this is under the full assumption that china and Egypt are REALLY talking about the potential to give tot of this soon to be 5th gen aircraft. If that successfully happens, then you really don’t need large numbers of heavy fighter crafts, if in theory, at all for some time. This one is too self explanatory.

You also have advanced su30s that incorporate tech from the 35 variant, but again, must sneak passed caatsa.

J-15 is not for export or it needs Russian authorization.. for heavy fighter the choice is clear either the SU-35 or the F-15.. nothing more on the Market..The FC-31 is medium weight like the Rafale..