Sea Sultan Long-Range MPA | Updates & Discussion

[Ak01]

PN can use the E190 too, the underlying platform of the Lineage 1000E.

The Lineage 1000E, I believe, uses the lower deck cargo area for additional fuel tanks. This can be added to the standard E190 as part of the conversion process (which involves so many other things anyways).

One other thing is that Embraer is also now producing a variant of the E190-E2 for special mission applications. So, I'm guessing, this would be a variant without the airliner stuff and, otherwise, pretty much ready for modification work.

yup, some structural work too but not anything unachievable.

I suspect the PN chose the 1000E though because theyll be alot lighter used than any airliner.

Due to the E190's relatively short hops, theyll likely have alot more cycles on them, which doesnt bode as well for the airframe life. With the 1000E, they'll likely be low cycle, low hour airframes, with tons of life, unlike the 190's, unless they can bag a lightly used one

 

[Yasser76]

Also lets not forget, in modern age, many Military officers have to think about post service life, armed forces do a good job with their commercial organisations in finding job for ex soldiers/officers, but many ex PN/PAF go into fly in commercial aviation. If we had A320s as MPA its a good long term career prospect for Navy pilots post PN

 

[Ak01]

Also lets not forget, in modern age, many Military officers have to think about post service life, armed forces do a good job with their commercial organisations in finding job for ex soldiers/officers, but many ex PN/PAF go into fly in commercial aviation. If we had A320s as MPA its a good long term career prospect for Navy pilots post PN

it doesnt really make a difference, turbine time is turbine time- the platform isnt too relevant. Most airlines will pay for your Type Rating anyway, there isnt too much of an advantage of already holding the Type rating. As long as you have decent hours under the belt, anyone will take them.

 

[Ak01]

Maybe it would have been better getting A320 airframe for Sea Sultan? PIA operate 17 of these and Air Blue about 12

Lineage is a platform better suited to smaller fields and cost- the airframes are probably dirt cheap. I think the airbuses would be far too large, with alot more work required.

 

[Ak01]

Lineage is a platform better suited to smaller fields and cost- the airframes are probably dirt cheap. I think the airbuses would be far too large, with alot more work required.

@Quwa do you still have the tender? itll shed some light on the choice

 

[blueboy7862]

It is good to see that the fleet is growing. Hopefully it will play it's vital part in future. Ideal time to induct it in numbers to augment our P-3Cs.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

P3Cs are based in Balochistan new naval station - pasni perhaps.

They are based in Turbat with expanded aircraft handling and support facilities that have recently sprung up. Atleast two large hangers are up and some ground is being prepared for a third hanger. I believe Army also has some aviation faculties there. Pasni remains a PAF base with capacity to house 12 a/c.

 

[Fatman17]

They are based in Turbat with expanded facilities and lots of support facilities that have been recently sprung up. I believe Army also has some aviation faculties there. Pasni remains a PAF base with capacity to house 12 a/c.

I stand corrected

 

[Fatman17]

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The COTS Advantage of the Pakistan Navy’s Sea Sultan LRMPA​

Pakistan Navy News by Bilal Khan

Bilal Khan​

The Sea Sultan long-range maritime patrol aircraft (LRMPA) is an important project for the Pakistan Navy (PN), not only as a successor to the Lockheed Martin P-3B/C Orion, its current mainstay anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-ship warfare (AShW) aircraft, but as a key solutions enabler.
How so?

Well, at every level, the Sea Sultan LRMPA leverages commercially off-the-shelf (or COTS) technology to (1) control cost, (2) ensure upgradability, and – perhaps most importantly – (3) guarantee future procurement availability.

In this process, Pakistan is not manufacturing any of the critical inputs or aircraft, so the Sea Sultan is not an ‘indigenous’ program per se. However, by both finding and integrating preexisting platforms and subsystems, the PN is learning the process of developing an original solution that it could manage and evolve with far greater autonomy compared to buying a stock solution from a vendor.

Background​

The PN initiated the Sea Sultan LRMPA program in 2021, following a tender seeking a twin-engine jet aircraft intended to serve as its platform. The PAF intends to induct at least 10 aircraft, with the first joining the fleet in 2026. Presently, three aircraft are undergoing conversion, with a fourth ordered recently and slated to join the process.

Step 1: Using a Commercial Platform​

The first input of the Sea Sultan LRMPA is the Embraer Lineage 1000E. This is a specially configured variant of the Embraer E190 commercial airliner. While billed as an executive or VVIP variant, the main difference between the Lineage 1000E and E190 is that the former uses internal fuel tanks (stored in the luggage bay of the airliner) to vastly extend the range and endurance of the aircraft. Therefore, it offers significantly longer on-station time.

Given how Embraer built a few Lineage 1000Es, one might think that the overall potential for Sea Sultan LRMPA production has a hard limit or cap. However, the Lineage 1000E is essentially the E190 with relatively minor modifications (that do not seem to involve any major structural changes). Thus, the actual potential cap of the Sea Sultan is substantially higher.

This gives the PN ample room to expand its LRMPA fleet via the same platform or co-market the Sea Sultan alongside Paramount Group, Leonardo, and other original equipment manufacturers (OEM) involved in the project.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

The PAF intends to induct at least 10 aircraft, with the first joining the fleet in 2026. Presently, three aircraft are undergoing conversion, with a fourth ordered recently and slated to join the process.

Perhaps the typo, the PN not PAF intends to..... ?

Can someone elaborate the difference / advantages or capability enhancements Sea sultan will give over the PC-3 Orions both in terms of sensor capabilities and weapon suite. I read some articles, found vendor names but didn't found the capabilities / ranges / specs etc. Also what type of missiles it will carry? Will it be a simple upgrade over PC-3s OR it will be a huge upgrade like it will give some sort of capability that is currently absent in the fleet?

Also, how we'd rate it versus P-8?

@Quwa @arslank01

 

[Fatman17]

Perhaps the typo, the PN not PAF intends to..... ?

Can someone elaborate the difference / advantages or capability enhancements Sea sultan will give over the PC-3 Orions both in terms of sensor capabilities and weapon suite. I read some articles, found vendor names but didn't found the capabilities / ranges / specs etc. Also what type of missiles it will carry? Will it be a simple upgrade over PC-3s OR it will be a huge upgrade like it will give some sort of capability that is currently absent in the fleet?

Also, how we'd rate it versus P-8?

@Quwa @arslank01

Basically it is a replacement of the PC-3s due to arms embargo by the US. I would guess it to have similar capabilities.

 

[Toxic]

Perhaps the typo, the PN not PAF intends to..... ?

Can someone elaborate the difference / advantages or capability enhancements Sea sultan will give over the PC-3 Orions both in terms of sensor capabilities and weapon suite. I read some articles, found vendor names but didn't found the capabilities / ranges / specs etc. Also what type of missiles it will carry? Will it be a simple upgrade over PC-3s OR it will be a huge upgrade like it will give some sort of capability that is currently absent in the fleet?

Also, how we'd rate it versus P-8?

@Quwa @arslank01

They will either carry Chinese or domestic missiles.

 

[Watandar]

Embraer is an awesome company and Pakistanis really need to discover a world outside of just Gulf, US and UK. I have often wondered why Embraer commercial and defense products have never been bought by Pakistan.

 

[Quwa]

Perhaps the typo, the PN not PAF intends to..... ?

Can someone elaborate the difference / advantages or capability enhancements Sea sultan will give over the PC-3 Orions both in terms of sensor capabilities and weapon suite. I read some articles, found vendor names but didn't found the capabilities / ranges / specs etc. Also what type of missiles it will carry? Will it be a simple upgrade over PC-3s OR it will be a huge upgrade like it will give some sort of capability that is currently absent in the fleet?

Also, how we'd rate it versus P-8?

@Quwa @arslank01

Advantages over P-3C:

• PN can buy more units whenever it wants
• Cheaper to maintain as it's a widely used airliner
• Cheaper to fly as it's a widely used airliener
• Easier to upgrade as its COTS at every level
• Will likely carry Taimur and/or Rasoob ALCMs.
• Will likely carry AWC LWT

Some details aren't 100% verified, but the AShW payload capacity of the Sea Sultan will be comparable to the P-3C, but ASW capacity may be less than P-3C due to a smaller torpedo bay (if there is one, which also hasn't been 100% confirmed yet).

OTOH, the point of the Sea Sultan is to bank more on lower upfront and lifecycle costs, which helps you buy more units. Moreover, it it would be configured for future ops scenarios, like MUM-T ops with ASW-equipped Shahpar-III or, potentially, P282 compatibility (hypersonic ALBM).

Compared to the P-8, the Sea Sultan will obviously have less range, less endurance, and less payload. However, the Sea Sultan will likely have a much lower upfront and lifecycle cost.

For ex., the Saab Swordfish (comparable concept to the Sea Sultan) was to cost 2/3 the Poseidon upfront, and 1/3 over its life. I'd wager the Sea Sultan is comparable to that, or even less.

 

[Toxic]

Advantages over P-3C:

• PN can buy more units whenever it wants
• Cheaper to maintain as it's a widely used airliner
• Cheaper to fly as it's a widely used airliener
• Easier to upgrade as its COTS at every level
• Will likely carry Taimur and/or Rasoob ALCMs.
• Will likely carry AWC LWT

Some details aren't 100% verified, but the AShW payload capacity of the Sea Sultan will be comparable to the P-3C, but ASW capacity may be less than P-3C due to a smaller torpedo bay (if there is one, which also hasn't been 100% confirmed yet).

OTOH, the point of the Sea Sultan is to bank more on lower upfront and lifecycle costs, which helps you buy more units. Moreover, it it would be configured for future ops scenarios, like MUM-T ops with ASW-equipped Shahpar-III or, potentially, P282 compatibility (hypersonic ALBM).

Compared to the P-8, the Sea Sultan will obviously have less range, less endurance, and less payload. However, the Sea Sultan will likely have a much lower upfront and lifecycle cost.

For ex., the Saab Swordfish (comparable concept to the Sea Sultan) was to cost 2/3 the Poseidon upfront, and 1/3 over its life. I'd wager the Sea Sultan is comparable to that, or even less.

Plus you have to deal with Uncle Sam and their churan of maintain regional balance while selling Indians superior weaponary.