Should India Consider An-70

[Faceless]

We should really consider buying the abandoned An-70 design from the Ukrainians like we did with SCE-200.

Antonov An-70 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

After the fall of Soviet Union the project was supposed to be a joint Russian - Ukranian project but it was later abandoned by Russia and Ukraine was forced to return all the money Russia had invested in the program, and Russia terminated it's any financial, legal as well as intellectual property rights to the Project.

Right now due to the war the Ukranians are in dire need of money and are more likely to sell these designs for quite cheap, given that they were offering the Chinese to buy the design as far back as 2003 but the Chinese decided to go their own route with Y 20.

Antonov An-77 Ukrainian Aircraft

www.globalsecurity.org

We have a golden chance right now to buy a design that can fulfill almost all of our cargo hauling needs.
and It's not like An 70 is some purely theoretical plane either a lot of work has been done on the project. It has completed over 700 flights and logged nearly a 1000 hours of flight,

Various Variants of the An 70 exist, we can either buy the entire program (and all the related variants) or focus specifically on the Variants we need like An-77 and An-170 which can replace our old IL-76's and complement C-17's and given that C-17's production line is now closed and there is no other plane in the market, even in the near future, realistically speaking An 170 is our only option.


MY FANBOY WISHLIST

An-70T-300 A version of the An-70T with two American CFM56-5C4 engines,
Can fulfill our current MTA requirements with a payload capacity of 30 Tons

An-77 An export version of the An-70 with four CFM56-5C4 engines and a crew of 2-3 people.
Range of 3000 km with a Payload capacity of 45 Tons, can come in handy where Bigger planes like C 17 are a overkill and would be expensive to operate

An-170 variant of the An-70 with a fuselage
extended by 8 meters, more powerful D-227 engines,
and a modified landing Gear
Range of over 5500km with a Payload Capacity of 80 tons (60 tons Normal load) and a MTOW of 234 Tons
Can easily Replace our ageing IL-76 and complement our C17s


Read this on another defence forum and thought It was an interesting prospect, what are your thoughts

 

[Pingle]

I did not read your full post but if we go for this design what about engines and other things on technical support? Both Ukraine and Russia are bogged down in war and won't be able to provide after sales services... I might be wrong...

 

[drkrn86]

I did not read your full post but if we go for this design what about engines and other things on technical support? Both Ukraine and Russia are bogged down in war and won't be able to provide after sales services... I might be wrong...

Engine is always a bottle neck. Rest we can easily develop overtime

 

[Yommie]

Why bother? That factory is already bombed to junk.

 

[Archie]

Brazilian C390 is the best choice to replace ageing AN132 aircrafts

We should accept the Brazilian offer of a barter trade
Where we buy 45 C390s and they buy 54 Tejas Mk1A along with 300 Astra BVRAAMs

IAF gets a platform which will provide a 3x improvement in airlift capacity over the existing AN132s

And Brazil gets a cheaper replacement for their ageing F5s than going for smaller number of additional Gripen E

 

[nahtanbob]

Didn't India choose the CN-295

 

[Faceless]

Brazilian C390 is the best choice to replace ageing AN132 aircrafts

We should accept the Brazilian offer of a barter trade
Where we buy 45 C390s and they buy 54 Tejas Mk1A along with 300 Astra BVRAAMs

IAF gets a platform which will provide a 3x improvement in airlift capacity over the existing AN132s

And Brazil gets a cheaper replacement for their ageing F5s than going for smaller number of additional Gripen E

I agree that MTA requirements are immediate and we can't afford to wait 10 years for a indigenous plane to fill it and
C 390 is the best platform to fullfill the requirement, and Barter Trade of C390 in exchange of Tejas & Astra is the best outcome we can hope for but

what are we gonna do about our ageing IL-76's which are in dire need of replacement.
C 17's assembly lines are closed, IL-76MD is a dud and we sure as hell aren't gonna buy a Y-20, developing our own Strategic Heavy lifter is the only choice we have got.
MTA procurement can give us the breathing room required to develop an indigenous strategic heavy lifter in the form of An 77 and An 170.

Didn't India choose the CN-295

Totally Different Category

 

[Archie]

Didn't India choose the CN-295

We bought 56 C295 to replace 60 odd older AvRO HS260 light air lifters .
These were retired back in 2012 , but due to usual Indian procurement delays , their replacement c295 started entering service in 2023

The current discussion is regarding Medium Category cargo aircraft to replace our 90 AN132s which will begin retiring in 2030
An132 can carry 9 ton payload
IAF is looking to buy 45 aircrafts in 20-30 ton category to replace 90 An132

This ensures that similar capabilities are maintained with a smaller fleet which will be easier to maintain in the longer run.

The contenders include

lLockheed Martin C130Js which we already operate, Brazilian Embraer C390 and Airbus A400s

While the c130J is the sensible choice since we already operate 12 of them.

But Brazil’s offer of a barter trade which could save us 4 billion USD in forex , is very tempting

 

[Archie]

I agree that MTA requirements are immediate and we can't afford to wait 10 years for a indigenous plane to fill it and
C 390 is the best platform to fullfill the requirement, and Barter Trade of C390 in exchange of Tejas & Astra is the best outcome we can hope for but

what are we gonna do about our ageing IL-76's which are in dire need of replacement.
C 17's assembly lines are closed, IL-76MD is a dud and we sure as hell aren't gonna buy a Y-20, developing our own Strategic Heavy lifter is the only choice we have got.
MTA procurement can give us the breathing room required to develop an indigenous strategic heavy lifter in the form of An 77 and An 170.


Totally Different Category

IL76 with its 42 ton airlift capability is difficult to replace
While this aircraft cannot airlift a T90 MBT like the c17, it can airlift pretty much everything else in the Indian army’s inventory

The only sensible choice is to request USAF to give us some of their C17s which they currently have in storage as part of attrition reserve fleet

USAF has 50+ C17s kept in storage after flying for 7-12 years
this was part of Obama era budget cuts

Should Trump come back to power, then Modi can ask politely for 15-20 of these C17s at a discounted rate and Trump will probably sell them , just to show his vote bank how good he is in making deals

 

[Faceless]

IL76 with its 42 ton airlift capability is difficult to replace

The IL 76 India operates has a Payload Capacity of nearly 50 tons and is in dire need of replacement

While this aircraft cannot airlift a T90 MBT like the c17, it can airlift pretty much everything else in the Indian army’s inventory

It is a hangar queen, almost all of our long Haul airlifting is done by C 17.

Atleast 6 IL76 parked on multiple IAF bases have not moved even 1 inch in the past 2 years

The only sensible choice is to request USAF to give us some of their C17s which they currently have in storage as part of attrition reserve fleet

my question is Why beg the US for something they are most likely to deny, when we have a chance to develop our very own Strategic Heavy airlifters
not to mention According to https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1529726/c-17-globemaster-iii/
there are only 18 C 17 are in USAF reserves, which I doubt they are going to part ways with this easily

Should Trump come back to power

We should forget about that, Kamala is winning this election, there is only like a 30% chance of him winning

Modi can ask politely for 15-20 of these C17s at a discounted rate and Trump will probably sell them , just to show his vote bank how good he is in making deals

And you think USA will agree, even if we assume India begs for it and the White House is okay with it, pentagon will vehemently oppose it, there is no way in hell USAF is going to let go of their reserve aircrafts, specially not for us, when countries like Australia and Canada couldn't get their hands on them even after being a NATO ally what makes you think they will make an exception for us.

We have no other choice but to develop our very own Strategic Heavy airlifter

 

[Archie]

The IL 76 India operates has a Payload Capacity of nearly 50 tons and is in dire need of replacement

It is a hangar queen, almost all of our long Haul airlifting is done by C 17.

Atleast 6 IL76 parked on multiple IAF bases have not moved even 1 inch in the past 2 years


my question is Why beg the US for something they are most likely to deny, when we have a chance to develop our very own Strategic Heavy airlifters
not to mention According to https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/1529726/c-17-globemaster-iii/
there are only 18 C 17 are in USAF reserves, which I doubt they are going to part ways with this easily


We should forget about that, Kamala is winning this election, there is only like a 30% chance of him winning

And you think USA will agree, even if we assume India begs for it and the White House is okay with it, pentagon will vehemently oppose it, there is no way in hell USAF is going to let go of their reserve aircrafts, specially not for us, when countries like Australia and Canada couldn't get their hands on them even after being a NATO ally what makes you think they will make an exception for us.

We have no other choice but to develop our very own Strategic Heavy airlifter

It will take 20 years for us to develop a heavy lifter in the 50-70 ton category

Which is not worth it since Indian requirement is around 35 unit at max and these aircraft’s will remain in service for 40+ years

And their are only a few countries in the world who can buy such an Aircraft and majority are NATO members

So no scope of export

 

[Deino]

This thread is as logical as posting "should be order additional C-17"??

 

[Ali_Baba]

The An-70 project is totally complete dead as the dodo ... honestly - what bought this sillyness on ??

 

[Faceless]

The An-70 project is totally complete dead as the dodo ... honestly - what bought this sillyness on ??

So was RD-810, but guess where SCE 200 came from.

It will take 20 years for us to develop a heavy lifter in the 50-70 ton category

I think you are really overestimating the time needed, it would take 20 years if we were to start from scratch which we are not, Also even 20 years later the need would still be there

Which is not worth it since Indian requirement is around 35 unit at max and these aircraft’s will remain in service for 40+ years

35 units is the current requirement, if you were to retire IL 76 tomorrow, 20 years into the future it will comfortably reach 50 units which would easily justify the cost spent.

It's a way better prospect than sinking billions in the RTA-70/90 project, which has so many competitors that it won't even succeed in the domestic market let alone international one.

This thread is as logical as posting "should be order additional C-17"??

Geez, I wonder who the Ukrainians were pitching the An 70 in early 2000s.

Antonov An-77 Ukrainian Aircraft

www.globalsecurity.org

Page 69 please

 

[Justin TruDont]

So was RD-810, but guess where SCE 200 came from.


I think you are really overestimating the time needed, it would take 20 years if we were to start from scratch which we are not, Also even 20 years later the need would still be there


35 units is the current requirement, if you were to retire IL 76 tomorrow, 20 years into the future it will comfortably reach 50 units which would easily justify the cost spent.

It's a way better prospect than sinking billions in RTA-70/90 project, which has so many competitors and will never succeed in the domestic market let alone international one.


Geez, I wonder who the Ukrainians were pitching the An 70 in early 2000s.

Antonov An-77 Ukrainian Aircraft

www.globalsecurity.org

Page 69 please

35 unit is the current requirement based on the expected retirement of IL76 in 2030
Even 20 yrs down the line
Our requirements will not jump to 50 such aircrafts unless we plan to start Gulf War 3 in support of Israel

Do you seriously expect IAF to have a capability gap for 15-20years after retirement of IL76

Also even a 50 Aircraft order is not enough to justify the R&D expenses required to develop a C17 class air lifters