TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[silicon0000]

Why wait? The Indians have a quantitative advantage, if 5th gen options are available, why not try to get a qualitative BVR edge? I say buy a squadron of j-35(will prob be ready before KAAN with domestic engine) as soon as they are available with WS-19s.

Probably PAF not interested in 5th Gen Race with India. Pakistan don't have as many resources as India have. Acquiring 5th Gen by Pakistan will trigger purchase of 5th Gen by Indian Airforce too.

 

[hyperman]

Acquiring 5th Gen by Pakistan will trigger purchase of 5th Gen by Indian Airforce too.

from where? US won't sell the F-35 to them.

Su-57 from Russia? lol

their own aircraft isn't ready and won't be for a long time. A no chance in hell China will sell. Its one place where there is a ripe time to outmaneuver if the decision is made.

 

[silicon0000]

from where? US won't sell the F-35 to them.

Su-57 from Russia? lol

their own aircraft isn't ready and won't be for a long time. A no chance in hell China will sell. Its one place where there is a ripe time to outmaneuver if the decision is made.

They can get Su57, F35 both if situation arise. Russia need funds and US only want them to first go for 4th Gen then 5th Gen and both of these are possible with India if they feel left behind from Pakistan.

What Pakistan should do now is to prioritize training its pilots in China on 5th generation aircraft, and making different strategies and ensuring their rapid operational readiness when the need arises and they are inducted.

 

[hyperman]

F35 both if situation arise.

lol, no they can't. The F-35 is restricted to close treaty allies, and the restrictions and conditions on it are so restricted that even the UAE wasn't able to acquire them. Not to mention that India operatd the S-400 and there are other cooperative agreements and relations with Russia.

The Su-57 is not really all that great design stealth wise(its one of the reasons India abandoned the FGFA program) and its doubtful if Russia can produce them in mass numbers. Russia has only produced 11 of these planes for itself, that Jet's production rate is worse than the Tejas.

Which is why I'm saying if Pakistan acquires the J-35, there is no Indian counter for quite a while. The Indians will have to wait until France finishes developing the FCAS or the British Tempest is ready, and we have no idea if those platforms would be exported to India. Pakistan's unique advantage over India is that it has a relationship with China which has already carried out the development burden, India's historical partner Russia is in decline, and the French won't have a similar solution until a while. Its like when Pakistan acquired F-16s, for a significant amount of time, Pakistan had a qualitative advantage over India b/c of it.

The US Sent Pakistan F-16s in 1983, it was only several years later in 1987 that India acquired Mig-29s, and even then the F-16s were better, given their performance in the soviet afghan war against soviet aircraft.

 

[silicon0000]

lol, no they can't. The F-35 is restricted to close treaty allies, and the restrictions and conditions on it are so restricted that even the UAE wasn't able to acquire them. Not to mention that India operatd the S-400 and there are other cooperative agreements and relations with Russia.

The Su-57 is not really all that great design stealth wise(its one of the reasons India abandoned the FGFA program) and its doubtful if Russia can produce them in mass numbers. Russia has only produced 11 of these planes for itself, that Jet's production rate is worse than the Tejas.

Which is why I'm saying if Pakistan acquires the J-35, there is no Indian counter for quite a while. The Indians will have to wait until France finishes developing the FCAS or the British Tempest is ready, and we have no idea if those platforms would be exported to India. Pakistan's unique advantage over India is that it has a relationship with China which has already carried out the development burden, India's historical partner Russia is in decline, and the French won't have a similar solution until a while. Its like when Pakistan acquired F-16s, for a significant amount of time, Pakistan had a qualitative advantage over India b/c of it.

The US Sent Pakistan F-16s in 1983, it was only several years later in 1987 that India acquired Mig-29s, and even then the F-16s were better, given their performance in the soviet afghan war against soviet aircraft.

Let's Agree to Disagree that Indian can acquire them or not. Good News is, it seems What you are saying, is going to happened soon.

PAKISTAN CONFIRMS PLANS TO ACQUIRE CHINESE FIFTH-GENERATION STEALTH FIGHTERS

The Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Babar today at a ceremony at the Central Air Command AOR confirmed the Pakistan Air Force’s plans to procure the Shenyang J-31 multirole stealth fighter jet from China. The CAS said that “the foundation for...

defencepk.com

 

[suryaya]

Noob question (sorry, will ask many of these lol): Why is the KAAN so important for Pakistanis? As opposed to what China can provide? I would understand if we were contributing to the project and developing our skills but that's not the case here. Is it expected that the KAAN platform is the best of the available options?

 

[hussain]

Why wait? The Indians have a quantitative advantage, if 5th gen options are available, why not try to get a qualitative BVR edge? I say buy a squadron of j-35(will prob be ready before KAAN with domestic engine) as soon as they are available with WS-19s.

Ever seen PAF do anything proactively?

 

[hyperman]

Noob question (sorry, will ask many of these lol): Why is the KAAN so important for Pakistanis? As opposed to what China can provide? I would understand if we were contributing to the project and developing our skills but that's not the case here. Is it expected that the KAAN platform is the best of the available options?

One element is a diversification of suppliers.

Also, Turkey did offer codevelopment from what I read, they termed it as "joining the project" as opposed to a simple purchase. some parts/subsystems can be built in Pakistan, probably some other maintenance and other infrastructure to maintain it in Pakistan. Turkey offers a bigger opportunity in terms of codevelopment than China, b/c China has already developed its platforms and doesn't really need to look towards codevelopment.

China doesn't want to export the J-20, which if its prime heavyweight fighter. China it seems is offering the J-31 which is in a medium to light weight fighter. The KAAN is more akin to the J-20 in terms of performance outlook, bigger engines, bigger payload. And Turkey is also going to be exporting the complimentary platforms of the KAAN as well, like the Kizilelma, ANKA 3, and Simsek. Pakistan already bought the ANKA-S, TB2 drone as well as Akinci, so it would help Pakistan in terms of network integration if it bought the KAAN.

Lets see how it plays out, and which platform they choose to go with.

 

[hyperman]

Ever seen PAF do anything proactively?

They bought the F-16s didn't they? They signed the contract for the F-16s as one of the very first foreign customers, 2 years after the US Air Force inducted it. To put this in perspective, Pakistani pilots were flying the F-16 from PAF Base Sargodha January 1983, while the Soviets inducted their first Mig-29 in August of the same year. So forget the Indians, who went on to get their first Mig-29s years later, the Soviets themselves didn't have an answer for Pakistani F-16s flying and shooting down aircraft over Afghanistan. It also deterred India from launching airstrikes on Kahuta nuclear facilities.

 

[VCheng]

They bought the F-16s didn't they? They signed the contract for the F-16s as one of the very first foreign customers, 2 years after the US Air Force inducted it. To put this in perspective, Pakistani pilots were flying the F-16 from PAF Base Sargodha January 1983, while the Soviets inducted their first Mig-29 in August of the same year. So forget the Indians, who went on to get their first Mig-29s years later, the Soviets themselves didn't have an answer for Pakistani F-16s flying and shooting down aircraft over Afghanistan. It also deterred India from launching airstrikes on Kahuta nuclear facilities.

But we still love to hate USA for such weaponry support. How times change!

 

[hyperman]

But we still love to hate USA for such weaponry support. How times change!

Geopolitical circumstances change. Depending on need and balance of power, things morph.

Pakistan was needed when the Soviet Union was around, If Afghanistan fell, then Pakistan would have been next and with Pakistan, there would be soviet warm water ports and a direct connection from Moscow to India which was soviet aligned. The dangers of the soviets dominating the entirety of the Asian landmass was significant enough for Washington to provide a significant amount of aid to bolster the bulwark. Also remember that its only a few years removed from the US being driven out of Iran with the revolution.

Post Soviet era and with the rise of China, the dynamics are reversed, where to counter China, India is being boosted. Particularly the Indian Navy, to prevent China having a free hand in the Indo Pacific.

 

[VCheng]

Geopolitical circumstances change. Depending on need and balance of power, things morph.

What do you think “how times change“ means as I said above? USA is doing the same thing as Pakistan: serve its national interests in an ever changing world. As is Turkey with the TFX.

 

[hyperman]

What do you think “how times change“ means as I said above? USA is doing the same thing as Pakistan: serve its national interests in an ever changing world. As is Turkey with the TFX.

Well If I was pakistani, i would be a little upset. lol, the US dropped pakistan like a sack of potatoes once it was done using it against the soviets.

It was a mistake, as what happened next is that Afghanistan went to shit and Pakistan was holding the bag, so they tried making deals with several parties/warlords, from Massod, to Hikmetyar, to finally the Talibs, and then 9/11 happened and suddenly with the afghan invasion, Pakistan was relevant again, now with the withdrawal, pakistan is irrelevant again, and left holding the bag with the fallout with washington losing interest and not really providing support(a mistake in my opinion).

I mean there were mistakes made on the Pakistani side, and frankly quite a lot of them, but Pakistan in many ways has a right to be upset. I remember listening to Michael Scheuer the former CIA intelligence officer, and reputable foreign policy analyst(before he turned crazy) and he was one of the few people in ther western discourse that actually understood the dynamics.

 

[VCheng]

Well If I was pakistani, i would be a little upset. lol, the US dropped pakistan like a sack of potatoes once it was done using it against the soviets.

It was a mistake, as what happened next is that Afghanistan went to shit and Pakistan was holding the bag, so they tried making deals with several parties/warlords, from Massod, to Hikmetyar, to finally the Talibs, and then 9/11 happened and suddenly with the afghan invasion, Pakistan was relevant again, now with the withdrawal, pakistan is irrelevant again, and left holding the bag with the fallout with washington losing interest and not really providing support(a mistake in my opinion).

I mean there were mistakes made on the Pakistani side, and frankly quite a lot of them, but Pakistan in many ways has a right to be upset. I remember listening to Michael Scheuer the former CIA intelligence officer, and reputable foreign policy analyst(before he turned crazy) and he was one of the few people in ther western discourse that actually understood the dynamics.

Why do think someone famous said that Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, but only after they have tried everything else?

 

[Oublious]

Kaan will fly coming days...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1744645753279033428