TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[royalharris]

KAAN, with US engine, will not be really operationnal before 2035 at best.
You underestimate the task.

Turkey is not yet capable of independently designing and producing a fourth-generation fighter jet, let alone a fifth-generation fighter jet.Turkey still has a long way to go before achieving a true fifth-generation fighter jet, Turkey should not try to elevate itself by putting down aviation powers that are far stronger than itself. but the ambition and drive it has shown are still admirable.

France seems to be relying on its past achievements; when it comes to the latest cutting-edge technologies, there is little visible progress.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The future is MUM-T concept
and Germany has no technology to develop unmanned stealth Fighter Jet - flying-wing stealth UCAV

Even France-The UK still lacks unmanned stealth Fighter Jet technology

first go and finish developing of EuroDrone ( turboprob engined UCAV )


These Countries Turkiye , USA , China leads MUM-T concept in the World


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Turkish Aerospace CEO Prof. Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu:

"The UK , Japan , France, Germany are working on the 6th generation. We are also working on it, and we will finish it first.

KAAN will be at the center of the 6th generation. We are conducting our efforts through KAAN."

wasnt the failure of eurodrone blamed on the germans by the other partners?

 

[MMM-E]

Crystal blades. Is Turkey able to produce that ?

Only USA and Turkiye produce nickel-based superalloy single crystal blade with additive manufacturing method in the world

What about GaN embarqued radar ? (a harder task than to developp a radar for destroyer)
What about sensor fusion ?

Even KIZILELMA is equipped with sensor fusion
MURAD AESA Radar + TOYGUN EOTS + KARAT IRST + DAS Cameras + FEWS-U EW Suite

They have no idea what's going on in the world, and yet they come here spouting nonsense.

 

[MMM-E]

wasnt the failure eurodrone blamed on the germans by the other partners?

Europe is over

-- Europe could not develop even a turboprob engined UCAV like Turkish AKINCI

-- Europe doesnt have unmanned stealth Fighter Jet like Turkish KIZILELMA

-- where are TARANIS and NEURON ? Turkish ANKA-III fired even munitions from internal weapon bay and will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force in 2027

-- FCAS project is dead .. No any active project for France-Germany
and there is no 35.000 lbs turbofan engine project for France-Germany

 

[MMM-E]

There are two companies in the world that can process Aircraft engine turbine blades with the additive manufacturing Nickel Superalloy method

one is General Electric from USA , the other is TEI from Turkiye


Turkiye’s most complex aviation engine part consolidated with additive manufacturing

A product that originally consisted of 330 separate parts can be made in a single run, on a single bench with additive manufacturing

 

[MMM-E]

The Turkish developer of the stealth material for F-35 and B-2 Aircraft confirmed his work on KAAN.

Ergün Kırlıkovalı: “We are working with TUSAŞ on a new material for KAAN.”



TURKISH ENGINEERS MADE IT

Comparison of the image quality of EOTS systems that are invisible to radar, found only in the F-35 and KIZILELMA in NATO

Both the F-35's EOTS (AN/AAQ-40,) and the Aselsan TOYGUN on Turkiye's KIZILELMA are among the world's only fully embedded/low-observable (stealthy, radar-invisible aperture) Electro-Optical Targeting Systems (EOTS)

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TOYGUN (Kızılelma): 1280×1024 pixel HD MWIR (mid-wave infrared) thermal camera (~1.3 megapixels). High-resolution IR imaging with AI-supported automatic target recognition, classification, and tracking

AN/AAQ-40 ( F-35 ): Original baseline uses a high-sensitivity MWIR sensor (estimated ~1024×1024 or ~1 MP class )


Even KIZILELMA is equipped with sensor fusion
MURAD AESA Radar + TOYGUN EOTS + KARAT IRST + DAS Cameras + FEWS-U EW Suite

 

[Deino]

f we cannot procure the F110 engine from the U.S., what you're saying will happen. However, even if it takes longer than expected, have no doubt that it will eventually become one of the best fighter aircraft in the world

Well, then Kaan is heavily delayed for the TAF and IMO all export prospects and as such as I’ve already said, all grandiose Turkish delusions à la MMM-E are simply out of the question; it’s a naive calculation, eben eine "Milchmädchenrechnung"! And as for all these superlatives, isn’t it enough to simply complete the project successfully and not just muddle through like India?

C´mon Deino...
TF35.000 it is closer than any FCAS/GCAP or SKAFT or DUKFS!!!
Even if TF35000 goes wrong they can always buy license from chinese or russian companies...

No-one - especially not me - said, FCAS/GCAP or whatever will be earlier even more so since they are a totally different generation, and IMO TF35000 is maybe closer but surely not close enough!
And regarding China: They will NEVER EVER sell Turkey a licence for any of their high end engines! Why should they when the lack of an engine kills a competitor especially why nationalsits like MMM-E pretend, they don't need anything from China.
And Russia has nothing n offer at least nothing that would even more harm the Turkish.US-relations.

....

In the worst-case scenario, We could reverse engineer the GE F110 Engine and add extra technologies to use this Engine for the KAAN Fighter Jet

And there we have yet another example of how this is driven by mindless jingoism, coupled with criminal arrogance and technical incompetence: “So we’ll just copy the F110, then!??” Sure, and Uncle Sam will surely turn a blind eye, just because a few megalomaniacs disregard IP rights, flout every contract, and above all are foolish enough to believe that just because they’ve been cobbling together F110s for a few years, they can just copy an F110 ready for series production in 2–3 years.
The only problem is that Kaan is still underpowered with this stolen, copied engine, making all those big-talk performance claims simply illusory!

And that brings us back to point one: If the TF35000 doesn’t pan out, Kaan is a stillborn as an operational fighter!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Without engine, no jet. (it is called a glider).
You are in the uncle Sam hands. Remember F-35 saga....

Have a look to China : they needed decennials, billions and ten of thousand engineers just to be able to copy and paste russian engines. Now they seem independant, but what a trial !

Have a look to India : they tried but failed not to copy (as the specialist of copy and paste : China) but study from scratch a modern engine, Kaveri. A half failure, not able to run in reheat mode.

So... GOOD LUCK !

Sorry for off-topic, the WS-10 engine was a reverse engineering of the CFM56 core, and it has nothing to do with the AL-31F.

Although China has been a major operators of the AL-31F for 2-3 decades, we didn't reverse engineer its core design.

 

[BonPlan]

France seems to be relying on its past achievements; when it comes to the latest cutting-edge technologies, there is little visible progress.

Same was said before 1986 Farnborough.... Where Dassault team stole the show against a deceiptfull EFA...

Don't worry about Dassault. I'm quite sure they worked for months if not for years on a 100% Dassault 6th gen design. You will be surprised.

 

[BonPlan]

-- where are TARANIS and NEURON ? Turkish ANKA-III fired even munitions from internal weapon bay and will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force in 2027

-- FCAS project is dead .. No any active project for France-Germany
and there is no 35.000 lbs turbofan engine project for France-Germany

Neuron made more than 200 flights and released bombs.

Forget Germany. SAFRAN has all the knowledges to built a modern fighter engine. 1 st future step the M88 T-Rex with 20% more thrust/weight ratio, and next the 6th gen engine.
And the 12 tons engine for india.

 

[Sinan]

With this however I totally agree!

Nice of you to point this one out.

Many Turks think that other countries operate in a similar manner with Turkey. However people in many European countries questions government allocating budget for defence industry. We don't have this problem in Turkey, so generally Turks doesn't takes this into account.

 

[Sinan]

Crystal blades. Is Turkey able to produce that ?

I'm going through your posts. You have valid concerns. The things you mention like Sensor Fusion, Engine. These stuff are not easy to make. This is the point Turkish users in this forum not realising. They fail to see how high Turkish defense industry aims and how hard to get to there.

However, you should also try to understand Turkish users perspective as they have yet to see a Turkish project yet to fail, so they have belief.

 

[BonPlan]

Sorry for off-topic, the WS-10 engine was a reverse engineering of the CFM56 core, and it has nothing to do with the AL-31F.

Is it sure ? For me it is a AL-31 clone

 

[MMM-E]

Sorry for off-topic, the WS-10 engine was a reverse engineering of the CFM56 core, and it has nothing to do with the AL-31F.

Although China has been a major operators of the AL-31F for 2-3 decades, we didn't reverse engineer its core design.

WS-10 Engine is hybrid approach (CFM56 core + Russian-inspired military features + indigenous work)
Core : American CFM56
Afterburner and Nozzle : with AL-31 lessons
Fan and Low-Pressure : Indigenous + WS-6 experience


Also , China use WS-21 Engine ( direct modified/reverse-engineered version of Russian RD-93 engine ) to power the J-35AE Fighter Jet

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It seems Türkiye is moving in this direction too

MBS ARGE introduced the GUCHAN Engine.
The design is very similar to the F-110 engine that power the KAAN. It is believed that the power has been increased by 13,000 pounds through reverse engineering and R&D


The engine has monocrystalline blades that we produced ourselves.
The compression ratios and the design are completely different and unique to us

A total of 6 engines with a thrust of 42,000 lbf have been produced to date, and qualification tests of these engines are planned to be carried out in 2026


Turkiye has been using/producing the F110 Engine, which it knows down to its bolts and has all the production standards since 1987, with a small modernization we can use 42.000 lbf GUCHAN Engine until the 5th gen TF-35000 Engine arrives

 

[MMM-E]

I'm going through your posts. You have valid concerns. The things you mention like Sensor Fusion, Engine. These stuff are not easy to make. This is the point Turkish users in this forum not realising. They fail to see how high Turkish defense industry aims and how hard to get to there.

However, you should also try to understand Turkish users perspective as they have yet to see a Turkish project yet to fail, so they have belief.

Sensor Fusion is not a big deal for Turkish Defense Industry
Aselsan almost done it

In fact, all systems were integrated into KIZILELMA and they started flight tests
-- MURAD AESA Radar
-- TOYGUN EOTS
-- KARAT IRST
-- FEWS-U EW Suite

also , KAAN use Aselsan Helmet-Mounted Display System (HMDS)

virtual cockpits presented via helmet-mounted displays which allow the pilot 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness


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Here, the most critical point for us is the Engine

And we care about only official statements
We are not making things up; we are relaying official statements.

TEI General Manager Mahmut Faruk Akşit:
"Our work on the TF35000 engine continues with third-generation crystal blade technology.

KAAN's engine has reached the CDR (Critical Desing Review) stage, the final critical phase before operation and flight.

"We aim to equip KAAN Block 30 with domestically produced engines.
Our target is 2029 for the first test and 2033 for the final delivery."