The Evolution of PAF's JF-17 Thunder through OCU [Operational Capability Upgrade] - News, Updates, Possibilities & Discussions.
- Thread starter CSAW
- Start date
CSAW
Trusted Member
- Thread starter
- #152
Lessons Learned in May 2025 - The way forward
"....With the Lessons being carefully reviewed & course corrections from recent Pakistan - India skirmish , Pakistan Airforce might well have a readjustment in its strategic way forward.
With success achieved by J-10CP & JF-17C Block - III , all focus would be to induct J-35A with WS-21 engines & Long range BVR in internal weapons bay as the front line VLO Strike jet in contested air space. In a High - low mix and considering High electrical power requirement plus firing of Air to ground stand off munitions at supersonic speeds - the PFX fighter jet as a successor to JF-17C makes a case.
AEW&C EW aerial platform capabilities as Force mutipliers augments the Air dominance. The HAVA SOJ for PAF & ZDK-03 Upgrade might be the medium term steps to support the SAAB Eri-Eyes which have proved to be pivotal in PAF's success.
The three vaunted areas of improvement should include :
1- Increasing the strength & capability Soft & Hard Kills for tackling the Indian Loitering munitions attacks. While it also includes PAF's indigenous hardware's such as Radar coupled CIWS, E-SHORADS based on FAAZ series.
2- Prioritizing its own arsenal of Drones for swarm attacks with better propulsion and EW capabilities in coordination with China & Turkiye.
3- The probability to Loose Aerial assets on ground compared to while in aerial combat needs to be carefully evaluated against a strike of Drones & supersonic missiles. Capability - With a wider dispersal of Assets & Decoy airframes as dummy target ; Structural enhancement of existing or new Hardened shelters and establishing new airbases out of direct attack ranges of Indian Military.
Pakistan airforce should already be looking to induct some portion of technology related to Air Launched A2G High supersonic missiles to Hypersonic glide vehicles as an offensive punch for next decade.
The liKely outcome of loosing the aerial BVR battle for IAF could be turning towards the F-35 from USA.
Instead of over reliance on any single platform as silver bullet - Pakistan airforce's ability to Learn , upgrade & create a System of systems in multi spectrum aerial warfare would be the winning recipe for future."
Last edited:
CSAW
Trusted Member
- Thread starter
- #155
2025 India-Pakistan Conflict: High-Level Notes
Bilal Khan
"From 07 to 10 May 2025, Pakistan and India fought a brief – but intense – military conflict. After about four days of fighting, the conflict was stopped through an American-mediated ceasefire, announced by President Donald Trump on 10 May.
In the course of the short conflict, the world witnessed a long list of important warfare shifts: a large-scale air battle between multirole fighters, heavy use of drones and loitering munitions, the deployment of supersonic to near-hypersonic ballistic and cruise missiles, and even a declaration of cyberwarfare on infrastructure.
Overall, the 2025 Indo-Pak Conflict offered a prelude to the next generation of conventional warfare between major states, i.e., a conflict where well-equipped, well-integrated militaries employed full system-of-systems against each other.
Quwa will explore how Pakistan’s prior procurement and planning had fared in the conflict, and the potential outcome this conflict could have on Pakistan’s future procurement and development programs through a series of articles and other content pieces.
As a starting point, this article will examine a few key observations at a high level – these will be unpacked in greater detail in future content in the coming weeks and months.
Key Shifts in the 2025 Indo-Pak Conflict
Did China Finally Earn Its ‘Combat Proven’ Badge?
From the first day of hostilities, one of the headlining stories was the apparent success the PAF had in deploying its Chinese-built aircraft, notably the J-10CE ‘Dragon’ and the JF-17C Thunder Block-3, the latter being jointly produced by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC)
The crux of this was the PAF claiming it shot down as many as three Indian Air Force (IAF) Dassault Rafale fighters, which India ordered from France in 2016 and began inducting in the summer of 2020. The IAF acquired a total of 36 Rafales, with the Indian Navy (IN) recently finalizing a deal for 26 Rafale Ms.
It is still not certain if the IAF lost a Rafale, but reports from CNN and Reuters quoting French and U.S. security officials about at least one being lost does raise the probability.
Moreover, there are also reports from within India and third-party news media (quoting Indian officials) about at least three aircraft crashing in Indian territory, and, until this point, none of those have been identified as Pakistani.
Thus, with some degree of probability (but not with certainty), it seems that the PAF’s Chinese aircraft successfully shot down at least three or four IAF aircraft of French and Russian origin. Likewise, there are no verifiable reports of Chinese-origin aircraft being shot down.
If the PAF genuinely believes it downed multiple IAF aircraft (especially Rafales), then from its standpoint, Chinese-origin aircraft more than meet its requirements, both on paper and in the air in real-world combat. Thus, the PAF will procure additional Chinese aircraft; however, what these will be would depend on how Air Headquarters (AHQ) revises its requirements following the PAF’s air combat operations against India. "
2025 India-Pakistan Conflict: High-Level Notes - Quwa
In the course of the short conflict between Pakistan and India from 07 to 10 May 2025, the world witnessed a long list of important warfare shifts in both the air and on land.
quwa.org
----------------------------------------
Did Pakistan shoot down five Indian fighter jets? What we know
New Delhi and Islamabad have provided contrasting claims about the incident.
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Last edited:
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
block 3 has no IRST
CSAW
Trusted Member
- Thread starter
- #158
Pakistan Airforce emerges out as a clear winner in May 2025 aerial battle ; The future transformation
"The long range aerial battle dominated hands down by Pakistan airforce against numerically superior arch rivals has now been acknowledged by neutral experts.
The dominance in air is primarily attributed to "First Detect - First Jamm - First Shoot" tactics employed in a Kill Chain de-centralised network warfare system ; which entails the role of Horizon-7 C2 Erieyes & Land / Aerial based EW Platforms such as Dassault Falcon DA-20. Yet the impact of J-10CP & JF-17Cs with PL-15E BVRs have been largely profound. IAF tried thier utmost to destroy SAAB Erieyes by targeting them on ground via Loitering munitions & BrahMos strikes which show the lethality and danger poised.
Leaving aside the subjects of why PAF Chinese , Turkish & indigenous UAVs were not employed more forcefully with greater results ? , the need for E Shorads & CIWS , Hardened shelters & dispersed operations - we move on to the platforms induction for this piece.
The most discussed route before this skirmish regarding Platform inductions in PAF were J-35A in strike role , taking into account the statement of AirChief about ground work being initiated last year ; while addition of J-10CPs atleast one more squadron is also raised due to performance of this 4.5 generation fighter jet which has the distinction of first slayer of french Rafale jet.
The issue of local development of a platform as result and developing an aviation industrial ecosystem for sub systems as a process should not be lost in this race to induct imported platforms.
Despite all the pressure of depletinh squadrons, India is still trying to push LCA MK-1A, MK-II & AMCA projects with Air to air long range missiles and Air Launched strike weapons at pace , although with limited success.
Pakistan struck gold with JF-17C platform which has not only defied its limitations of being light by carrying a liquid cooled GaN AESA with PL-15E on dual racks coupled with stand off weapons capability. Its also no slouch in close ranges with its HOBS - HMS combo.
PAF has a legacy fleet of ROSE Strike Mirages which need BVR Cover for any meaningful operation ; limited F-7PGs & early airframes of JF-17 Thunder Block Is which are practically Block-IIs now. These 30 - 50 or so predominantly metallic airframes have seen rough utilisation and are very much nearing end of useful life. Thees would require major engine overhaul of complete life cycle also. In addition the early variants of F-16s are not likely to appear in BVR fights unless there is a gross panic situation. This leaves PAF with approx 100 +/- aerial assets which are no more relevant in future air battles in offensive roles.
Whereas the economy doesn't permit to induct high induction / operational cost J-35A in squadron strength exceeding 2. The specialized maintenance, MRO , traning 7 eco system of 5th gen asset and considering it will push IAF towards F-35 is a choice which needs to be timed carefully.
Considering that PAF should adopt a fleet wide capability to fire PL-15Es and operate an AESA radar , plus that fact that the Premium JF-17Cs have potential to improve in areas of Thrust improvement to provide additional (electric) power to hungry new electronics , Passive detection via IRST , Ram Coats at critical surface points or composites percentage enhancements, integration of versatile munitions such as Gokhan , SOM-J , Faaz-II etc -- meaning that the JF-17 PFX fighter jet program has its importance.
The PFX program is only understood as snippets till now with not major details available. However its very clear that it will adopt a modular project approach like Thunder program. ....." Continued
Last edited:
CSAW
Trusted Member
- Thread starter
- #159
" The PFX Alpha initiative now promises to deepen this indigenisation drive, with plans to incorporate locally developed radar systems, electronic warfare suites, and advanced avionics — and potentially, electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) targeting capabilities, bringing the aircraft closer to contemporary fourth-plus generation standards.
Such enhancements could offer the JF-17 not just extended survivability in complex air defence environments, but also multi-domain flexibility — from precision strikes in contested zones to battlefield ISR roles in asymmetric warfare theatres like Balochistan or along the Line of Control (LoC).
Senior defence analysts in Islamabad believe the initiative is emblematic of PAF’s growing desire to assert sovereign control over the JF-17’s developmental trajectory — a capability historically tempered by Pakistan’s deep technological reliance on its Chinese counterpart.
Since its induction, the JF-17 has embodied a partnership of geopolitical convenience between China and Pakistan — rooted in mutual strategic calculus, especially in balancing Indian airpower.
However, behind the narrative of self-reliance, the aircraft’s critical subsystems — radar, electronic warfare, and weapons integration — have remained largely under the purview of Chinese firms such as Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) and China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC).
With the OCU now in motion, the platform is set to undergo a sweeping overhaul of its avionics architecture and radar systems.
Sources close to the program indicate that
that that PFX Alpha will enable the integration of sophisticated air-to-air and air-to-surface precision-guided munitions, including homegrown assets like the Rasoob 250 glide bomb and the AZB-81LR, a long-range smart munition designed for deep-strike scenarios.
More than a technical upgrade, PFX Alpha reflects a quiet but decisive strategic recalibration."
Last edited:
Aziqbal
Elite Member
Pakistan also needs
access to advanced Chinese Quantum computers which are used in cyber security for things like encryption, did they use such a system to shut down Indians energy grid ? we will never know
Supercomputers which can quickly train AI robotics and also used in 5th generation aircraft
China is really a world leader in 21st century technology
and Pakistan now has a very good opportunity to utilises these new technologies
Hypersonic Glides I also agree, having the capability to turn and glide while doing Hypersonic speeds is a new area of combat
