The Evolution of PAF's JF-17 Thunder through OCU [Operational Capability Upgrade] - News, Updates, Possibilities & Discussions.

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CSAW said:
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There is a very big difference between the capabilities of the Saturn AL-51F-1 and WS-21 interms of performance, dimensions and specifications, ie they are for different categories of plane. WS-21 tops out at 93.2kn whereas the Saturn AL-51F-1 is as indicated 161.9kn of thrust.

A director competitor of the AL-51F-1 is the WS-15 engine.

I dont see PAF going for the AL-51F-1, as the WS-15 represents a better and more reliable supply line for support and maintenance and the politics of the AL-51F-1 with India will be too toxic to waste any time on anymore.

btw = Its a shame that the WS-19 is not available yet as that engine as 98.1kN is more interesting to re-engine the entire JF17 fleet with an extra 5kN of thrust, and i suspect better electrical power generation capabilities.

List of Chinese aircraft engines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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maxpane said:
sir what are the specs for alpha . is it size bigger one, new engine etc ?
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It is an effort to localise major components of the jf 17, They are developing a homegrown IRST, electronic warfare suites, and advanced avionics, EO/IR targeting capabilities etc.
We could be moving to a Chinese engine altogether.

That's what PAC desires, now, how much of the above comes to fruition, we will have to wait and see.
 
Reichmarshal said:
It is an effort to localise major components of the jf 17, They are developing a homegrown IRST, electronic warfare suites, and advanced avionics, EO/IR targeting capabilities etc.
We could be moving to a Chinese engine altogether.

That's what PAC desires, now, how much of the above comes to fruition, we will have to wait and see.
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It's a way more realistic goal than what Project Azm was, a bunch of air force uncles thought they would build a 5th generation fighter out of thin air with no industrial or research base and were humbled, scary to think they were this misinformed.

I think if PAC work directly with CATIC and come to an agreement they could maybe assist PAC to shift the full manufacturing line into Pakistan, and with steady investment into NASTP, they can make progress on the subsystems side of things too.

Ultimately though, the PAF needs to realise they are an air force that specialises in aerial warfare and aren't a high-end tech manufacturing company — major expertise in complex R&D and precision manufacturing is done by entirely different companies and not by an air force subsidiary as it's extremely complex, it takes professionals. USAF has Lockheed Martin, China has several state enterprises, etc, so it's dangerous to think PAC will always be able to do this in the future, it's a maintenance arm.
 
I believe the entire tool kit of JF-17 was handed over to PAF and now it is experimenting with JF-17 first and then will try to evolve it into PFX. Wajahat Saeed Khan once said this when he did a program on allegations of corruption on current CAS and PAF sent him clarification. He said PAF has told him that they have brought the entire framework for developing PFX.
 
Start out smaller and simpler. Build more of the existing JF-17 locally and give it upgrades equivalent to a Block 4.

- new engine with more thrust (WS or RD)
- Higher usage of composite panels to reduce weight
- IRST
- option for towed decoy in place of drogue chute
- beefier landing gear for highway ops
- increase weapon options
 
CSAW said:
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You got this some wt wrong, friend
PFX project has more in common with the grippen project than others.

JF 17 block 3 is a 4.5 gen AC.
JF 17 alpha will be a 4.5+ gen AC (more like a 4.75 gen). It is an effort to localise major components of the jf 17, They are developing a homegrown IRST, electronic warfare suites, and advanced avionics, EO/IR targeting capabilities etc.
Then, finally, PFX will be a true 5th-gen ac.
That's how PAC is proceeding
 
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Rationalist said:
Ultimately though, the PAF needs to realise they are an air force that specialises in aerial warfare and aren't a high-end tech manufacturing company — major expertise in complex R&D and precision manufacturing is done by entirely different companies and not by an air force subsidiary as it's extremely complex, it takes professionals. USAF has Lockheed Martin, China has several state enterprises, etc, so it's dangerous to think PAC will always be able to do this in the future, it's a maintenance arm.
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Hi,

That will help to have a more severe killing ambition when the enemy is on the run---.

Right now they are acting like MERCHANTS WITH SUPERIOR WEAPONS---protecting their wares---.
 
Reichmarshal said:
You got this some wt wrong, friend
PFX project has more in common with the grippen project than others.

JF 17 block 3 is a 4.5 gen AC.
JF 17 alpha will be a 4.5+ gen AC (more like a 4.75 gen). It is an effort to localise major components of the jf 17, They are developing a homegrown IRST, electronic warfare suites, and advanced avionics, EO/IR targeting capabilities etc.
Then, finally, PFX will be a true 5th-gen ac.
That's how PAC is proceeding
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Source of this info?
 
Rationalist said:
It's a way more realistic goal than what Project Azm was, a bunch of air force uncles thought they would build a 5th generation fighter out of thin air with no industrial or research base and were humbled, scary to think they were this misinformed.

I think if PAC work directly with CATIC and come to an agreement they could maybe assist PAC to shift the full manufacturing line into Pakistan, and with steady investment into NASTP, they can make progress on the subsystems side of things too.

Ultimately though, the PAF needs to realise they are an air force that specialises in aerial warfare and aren't a high-end tech manufacturing company — major expertise in complex R&D and precision manufacturing is done by entirely different companies and not by an air force subsidiary as it's extremely complex, it takes professionals. USAF has Lockheed Martin, China has several state enterprises, etc, so it's dangerous to think PAC will always be able to do this in the future, it's a maintenance arm.
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The ultimate goal of pfx program is to build a 5th gen ac.

maray bhai u have noble thoughts which would be very true for a say a western-oriented society. But ours is a vakhari society with some very disturbing tendencies and behaviors like forgo reason to make a quick buck, rat race etc.... eg in the last property boam, at the very fag end of it some big manafacturing names closed off their plants and invested their hard earned capital in the property mkt....only to loose it all. master tiles is one such name. Today the owners r on the run....loosing it all.

PAC has huge flaws and i could spend hrs to point out a few, but it las done lots of good too........ wt it has done is remarkable for a country that lacks the base to carry out such ventures
 
Reichmarshal said:
The ultimate goal of pfx program is to build a 5th gen ac.

maray bhai u have noble thoughts which would be very true for a say a western-oriented society. But ours is a vakhari society with some very disturbing tendencies and behaviors like forgo reason to make a quick buck, rat race etc.... eg in the last property boam, at the very fag end of it some big manafacturing names closed off their plants and invested their hard earned capital in the property mkt....only to loose it all. master tiles is one such name. Today the owners r on the run....loosing it all.

PAC has huge flaws and i could spend hrs to point out a few, but it las done lots of good too........ wt it has done is remarkable for a country that lacks the base to carry out such ventures
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PAC has done amazing work and I'm not denying that but we need to build up from the ground properly, it's unsustainable to expect PAC to handle all this workload it's just meant to be a maintaining/overhaul/repair arm with some small capacity.

Complex R&D and advanced manufacturing capacity has to be built from the ground up via other institutions if the PAF really wants high quality things.
 
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