Trump ally Charlie Kirk shot at campus event in Utah
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Hamartia Antidote
Elite Member
I'd actually argue that the 1950's "American Dream" movement directly caused the decline of religion in the US. Churchgoing in the US peaked in the early 1950s...its decline was led by suburbanization.
Those 1950's TV shows weren't showing devout people in the suburbs praying before every meal. Nor were they saying "you can't do this/that because it is Sunday" .
If anything it showed you could have a successful happy "model" family life without it revolving around religion. If religion did sneak in..it usually was about the children not eager about it...like unhappy wearing silly Sunday clothes...it certainly was not about being super gung-ho about joining the church choir.
Somebody poor in the city who has parents going to church every day would likely be looking at these shows and then back at their own wretched lives and be saying "hey wait a minute".
The "American Dream" as it was portrayed made it mainstream to treat religion as something secondary
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Khansaheeb
Elite Member
So he was shot from the back:
j_hungary
Professional
This is the exact reason why evangelical conservatives try to bring back the 1950s family values into today's world. Because not only me, or you, but most pundits would say "The American Dream" is long gone, or as my fav George Carlin said, "You have to be asleep to believe it"
The issue here is, conservative values and churches go hand in hand. When you think of conservative values, you think of owning a house, having a housewife who take care of your 2 and a half kids, and you work and support the family, and then you all go to church every sunday, that is the traditional conservative American value, again, this is what I grew up in, my father married my mother, she was rich and had a few company, but she don't work and stay at home after marrying my father, they had 3 kids (Obviously you can't have 2.5 kids) and me, my brother and my sister were growing up in this "picket fence" household, living what people would say "The American Dream". That's the epitome of life in America.
But then, religion started to go down because people became more liberal since the 50s, and with the influx of many different ideologies, you started to think and experiment with life, that's why the decoupling of the American dream with religion, and this is what the evangelicals are working very hard to revive that part of life because that's what they see as "our" golden age, and if you look at the MAGA movement, majority (i would say 90-95%) of these people are Evangelical, maybe there are people that non-religious being sweep up in the movement, but that number is very rare.
There is a very good video talking about the religious decline in America
Notice the similarity of the timeline when we entered "Negative Phase" for religion in America? That's when the MAGA movement started. You can say this is nothing but a coincidence, but well......can there be that many coincidences??
FarhanSiddiqui
Registered Member
Trump and Epstein statue in Washington
globalnews.ca
Statue of Trump, Epstein holding hands briefly appears in Washington, D.C. - National | Globalnews.ca
'We celebrate the long-lasting bond between President Donald J. Trump and his ‘closest friend,’ Jeffrey Epstein,' read a plaque at the foot of the installation.
globalnews.ca
Hamartia Antidote
Elite Member
It's "gone" because it never mentioned 4000sq ft, two $50K SUVs with their own garage spaces, premium cable subscriptions, and a $500 cellphone
- Then: A 1,200 sq ft house on a modest plot of land.
- Then: One family car (not two luxury SUVs).
- Then: No concept of cable TV, cell phones, or the constant consumption of new technology.
The simple "Father Knows Best" home which millions of people dreamed of having back in the 1950's. This pic was taken just before it was torn down in 2023.
The above is now considered borderline poverty in 2025 America. People have moved the goalposts to extreme expectations. The American Dream was about self-determination not deserving to live the high life. Moving beyond the days of serfdom to a landlord who provided you shelter to having your own castle to manage where you could make your own decisions. It never said you deserve a McMansion.
As for "values" I'm not sure what you can claim the "American Dream" would change.
Well both my parents worked and were highly religious. They both worked because they needed the money to survive and like George Carlin warned they sent us to private schools instead of the sh*t Boston public schools because they wanted us to get a decent education instead of being surrounded by MORONS who caused the curriculum to be dumbed down.
I moved to the suburbs and my wife quit her job to take care of the kids..and I never asked her to do it...I just thought it was in their best interest anyway. We certainly took a big financial hit.
They became more Liberal because with wealth and tech they didn't live in fear of what would happen tomorrow. So the need for a God was "out".
Again this is all relative. I live in the super "Liberal" state of Massachusetts (35% Liberal, 21% Conservative) and even they in terms of "values" wouldn't want to see porn shops in their own towns. They have no problem with stay-at-home moms. They vote to make sure low income housing stays out of their towns through likely the toughest zoning laws in the country. They live in one of the most expensive state housing markets ($685,000) with a high state median household income ($100,000) and town taxes typically over $10K annually which is ridiculously exclusionary and you'll still see plenty of Rainbow, Black Lives Matter, Say No to ICE flags on their lawns.
This is a region settled by Puritans. There's old (not new) Churches everywhere...that their descendents don't go to anymore. The churches of their parents/grandparents/etc are turned into things like yoga studios or condos...and they aren't crying about it. They'd rather spend time sitting in the stands watching their kids play soccer on Sundays than be in church.
Using Evangelical is just a word that means nothing really these days to people outside the Bible Belt.
I'm quite positive you'll find a high percentage are not religious at all...and many who claim they are...treat religion as a library card their parents got for them as a young child but seldom use and luckily has no expiration date.
Oh come on Trump is like the biggest library card holder ever. Calling him a "religious" conservative is laughable. Very Conservative...yes..."religious"...no.
The only reason religion is seen even more negatively than the days of Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority" is because they are more actively demonizing groups and taking away their rights.
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Starlord
Trusted Member
sorry, i think i misunderstood your point.
Master Chief
Trusted Member
Tsk tsk. Charlie boy was a bit of an antisemite by the looks of it.
j_hungary
Professional
It's "gone" because it never mentioned 4000sq ft, two $50K SUVs with their own garage spaces, premium cable subscriptions, and a $500 cellphone
- Then: A 1,200 sq ft house on a modest plot of land.
- Then: One family car (not two luxury SUVs).
- Then: No concept of cable TV, cell phones, or the constant consumption of new technology.
The simple "Father Knows Best" home which millions of people dreamed of having back in the 1950's. This pic was taken just before it was torn down in 2023.
The above is now considered borderline poverty in 2025 America. People have moved the goalposts to extreme expectations. The American Dream was about self-determination not deserving to live the high life. Moving beyond the days of serfdom to a landlord who provided you shelter to having your own castle to manage where you could make your own decisions. It never said you deserve a McMansion.
As for "values" I'm not sure what you can claim the "American Dream" would change.
I don't think I have ever mentioned a "McMansion." The issue here is, can you actually own a home now if you are doing all the "right things" back in the 1950s? That's the issue here.
I mean, do you think a regular American working a low-wage job (not even a minimum wage job) can afford a home that on average costs $300,000, which is already at the low end of the housing market? It takes my brother, who is an aeronautical engineer, earning $125,000 a year, a 20-year mortgage to afford his 2-bedder home in Downtown Houston, going it alone. In this day and age, unless you have two income earners in a household, the chances of you landing a home are not great
A look at the state of affordable housing in the U.S.
About seven-in-ten Americans (69%) say they are very concerned about the cost of housing.
www.pewresearch.org
And I am not talking about a $750,000 castle. We didn't move the goal post; the cost of living is leaving us behind.
Then I would say you are one of the lucky one
Liberal does not mean god is out, Liberalism is just a better word for open-minded toward a multitude of things. The same as conservative does not necessarily relate to religion
I will say this is because we become richer and opportunties comes with money, and you got to taste stuff that you weren't able to taste before, but your definition may be different than mine.
That's not what I meant. Australia is now ultra liberal under 2nd term labour government since they kicked out the Liberal Party in 2022, which ironically Liberal Party is the conservative here in Australia, but to a point, making porn is illegal, while prostitution is legal, the country would have no problem if you build a brothel and started pimping out women, as long as you are licensed and follow zoning rule, but shooting porn? That's a big no-no, it comes with 2 years imprisonment and $20,000. What you said is the perception of community; the same goes for any "unwelcomed development" such as Mental Hospitals, Prisons, or even cemeteries
What I meant is people now have the mean to experience things, used to be when Religion is the only thing in town outside of your life, maybe sport as well, that's it, now the world is smaller because everything is connected, I can stay home watch Youtube all day and it will never run out of content, you get more things to do, and religion is no longer one of the "pillar" of society. And this applies to BOTH political spectrum.
But most people who supported the GOP and the MAGA movement are rural bible belt type.....
Find it, yes, High Percentage, highly unlikely.
Again, I was talking about MAGA, not just conservatism.
Again, I was referring to the MAGA movement, not Trump. Trump is a pleaser; he is whatever you want him to be. He will please you to get what he wants.
The MAGA movement is based on Evangelicalism in the US., There are tons of publications you can read for this topic at hand, but I specifically like this
MAGA's 'vicious fight' for the 'soul of the Catholic church'
The conclave will be a "fight for the soul of the Catholic Church" between those who saw promise in the modernising changes Pope Francis made and those "who hated him for it".
www.abc.net.au
Trump is the person who is riding this high and combines Conservatism and MAGA to get to the top. Notice how he almost never talked about the Church before when he was just a second-rated Reality TV host. That's the same as the ABC article above explains how JD Vance, a self-proclaimed Atheist, is now being shown as the poster boy of American Catholicism
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
another cia/fbi/mossad classic
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
ahhh good ol Carlin, my favorite stand up of all time, he was brutally honest and do listen to his piece on war and America
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