Turkish Helicopter Programs

[hyperman]

a T629 equipped with T-700 engines

That GE T700 engine powers the Apache. Its meant for heavy Attack Helicopters.

The T629 is closer in performance to the T129 than a heavy helicopter like the Apache if I'm not mistaken. There was speculation that the helicopter would be powered by TS1400s.

 

[Merzifonlu]

The T629 is closer in performance to the T129 than a heavy helicopter like the Apache if I'm not mistaken. There was speculation that the helicopter would be powered by TS1400s.

+1

T-629 will 6-ton class and an agile helicopter. TS-1400 is more than enough.

 

[LegionnairE]

That GE T700 engine powers the Apache. Its meant for heavy Attack Helicopters.

Lol

it also powers our AH-1Ws and Sikorskis We have a stockpile of spare T-700s just sitting around in warehouses

I love it when people talk about shit that they know nothing about.

did @Waz make you a mod here so you can embarrass yourself more easily?

 

[LegionnairE]

T-629 will 6-ton class and an agile helicopter. TS-1400 is more than enough.

We'll talk about it when we can mass produce TS-1400 but suffice to say, we need both.

Many NATO countries would prefer a T-700 powered helicopter while our non-NATO allies such as Pakistan will want the TS-1400

As I said I'm mainly concerned with exports.

 

[hyperman]

I love it when people talk about shit that they know nothing about.

I know, like people who think they can use a T700 to power a light weight helicopter. Even Merzifonlu pointed this out to you. it a 6K helicopter similar to the T129, the t700 is for 10,000 range helicopter.

The AH-1Z/AH-1W are closer to an Apache's weight than the T129/629.

Here is a comparison chart.

Now be respectful in your comments.

 

[LegionnairE]

I know, like people who think they can use a T700 to power a light weight helicopter. Even Merzifonlu pointed this out to you. it a 6K helicopter similar to the T129, the t700 is for 10,000 range helicopter.

The AH-1Z/AH-1W are closer to an Apache's weight than the T129/629.

Here is a comparison chart.



Now be respectful in your comments.

You can't read the chart you YOURSELF provided.

I don't need to do or say anything you're embarrassing yourself on your own.


We can use both engines on the same airframe.

Even if T-700 is a bit more powerful, what does it matter? so we make an overpowered helicopter. Good.

Oh my god T-700 is 1690 shp instead of 1400shp big fucking deal.

What the hell are we going to do with extra 290 horsepower? this is a DISASTER

 

[Merzifonlu]

We'll talk about it when we can mass produce TS-1400

At least I wholeheartedly agree with your this statement. If we are going to talk about Gökbey and T-629 (and their navalized versions), it is imperative that we see the TS-1400 engines enter mass production.

If we cannot even put the TEI TS-1400 engine into mass production by 31 March 2025 at the latest, only God knows what will happen to us in the TF-35000 project!

 

[hyperman]

View attachment 33269

You can't read the chart you YOURSELF provided.

I don't need to do or say anything you're embarrassing yourself on your own.


We can use both engines on the same airframe.

Even if T-700 is a bit more powerful, what does it matter? so we make an overpowered helicopter. Good.

View attachment 33273

Oh my god T-700 is 1690 shp instead of 1400shp big fucking deal.

What the hell are we going to do with extra 290 horsepower? this is a DISASTER

This whole conversation started with the 629 and the T700(specially the variant that Turkey manufactures T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp)), which you conveniently dropped off and then inserted a red herring with the AH-1W/Z. I never mentioned the AH-1W/Z, you brought that into the conversation.

If you are putting a T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp) on a 629, its no longer in the same class as the 629 is supposed to be a light helicopter. If you are going to insist on using the T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp) on a 629, you are basically making a T-929 which is the equivalent of an Apache, which makes the whole conversation redundant(b/c you said they don't need a 9 or 12ton helicopter and instead suggested a T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp) on a 629(lets also ignore the fact that the T-700(T700-TEI-701D, which btw has around 1,990 shp, not 1,690 shp) variant Turkey has built are meant for the S-70 utility helicopter and that the T-700 variant that goes on an attack helicopter is a modified variant specially meant for attack helicopters).

btw these engines aren't interchangeable, the TS-1400(1,400 shp) is supposed to be the equivalent of the LHTEC CTS800-4A(1,373 hp) not the T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp). The engine classes that were considered for the Gokbey and the T-129.

The T700-GE-701D(around 1,990 shp) is the engine on the S-70i(T700-GE-701D) or the T-70(T700-TEI-701D) as well as the Apache(T700-GE-701D).

You can stick the spare T700-GE-701Ds on a 629(lets excuse the utility helicopter vs attach helicopter specific specification needed), in the same way you can stick a V12 onto a Honda Civic, but then its no longer a 629.

Oh my god T-700 is 1690 shp instead of 1400shp big fucking deal.

What the hell are we going to do with extra 290 horsepower? this is a DISASTER

btw your math is wrong, lets excuse the wrong T700 variant issue(401(1690) vs 701D(1990 shp)), the shp value is PER ENGINE so that 290 + 290 which is 580. Now lets apply it to the version Turkey license produces , T700-GE-701D(around 1,990 shp). so lets try it 1,990-1400 thats... 590 per engine... sooooo 590 + 590 = ?? 1180 shp EXTRA.

You sound like a guy who would drive something like this.

Edit: My mistake guys, i got the estimate wrong, its turn out the T700-TEI-701D doesn't produce aroud 1,990 shp... its PRODUCES 2,000 SHP according to TEI themselves. Apologies to the TEI engineers.

so its 2,000 - 1,400 = 600 and then 600 * 2 = 1,200 shp EXTRA. lol

 

[LegionnairE]

This whole conversation started with the 629 and the T700(specially the variant that Turkey manufactures T700-TEI-701D(around 1,990 shp)

Nope I clearly meant the AH-1W variant of the T-700. No amount of autistic screeching will change that.

I didn't even read the rest of your post, I'm sure you had fun defeating a strawman

If the engineeers want more power they can go for the 1990 shp version. We have infrastructure for both and I know we have spares laying around in warehouses. Either option works for me.

I'm sure pilots will appreciate the more powerful engine in the high and hot conditions of northern Iraq.

For anybody with an actual brain reading this:
Engineers can limit power at 1400shp at the lower altitudes. If one engine fails, FADEC could unlock the full 1690 shp (and more) to safely complete the mission.

We've been flying T-700 powered super cobras for DECADES. They've killed hundreds upon hundreds o terrorists and saved countless lives. To complain about more power coming from their engines takes an extra chromosome but unfortunately for all of us we have such a mod.

 

[hyperman]

Nope I clearly meant the AH-1W variant of the T-700. No amount of autistic screeching will change that.

I didn't even read the rest of your post, I'm sure you had fun defeating a strawman

If the engineeers want more power they can go for the 1990 shp version. We have infrastructure for both and I know we have spares laying around in warehouses. Either option works for me.

I'm sure pilots will appreciate the more powerful engine in the high and hot conditions of northern Iraq.

For anybody with an actual brain reading this:
Engineers can limit power at 1400shp at the lower altitudes. If one engine fails, FADEC could unlock the full 1690 shp to safely complete the mission.

Deny all you want, I have the receipts. I only contested the idea of a T700 on a 629, You injected the AZ-1W Red herring.

Red herring - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have the receipts Mr. "only 290 extra Hp" lol

He wants to cancel the T-929 b/c "no engine" and instead suggests fitting a T700(T700-TEI-701D that Turkey already makes)

And ironically the engine that does fall in the apache class of helicopter(T-929) he wants filled onto a 629.

 

[LegionnairE]

Deny all you want, I have the receipts. I only contested the idea of a T700 on a 629, You injected the AZ-1W Red herring.

Yes

First I said T-700 then I clarified with AH-1W variant. Yes it has 290hp more than TS-1400

cry more.

 

[LegionnairE]

T700-TEI-701D that Turkey already makes)

Lol

I'm feeling your second hand embarrassment. Oh my god what a clown

 

[hyperman]

First I said T-700 then I clarified with AH-1W variant.

Ok? still the wrong engine for the 629(this helicopter is supposed to be the Turkish version of the T129 without any license airframes from Italy or any engine from the US, that why merzifonlu told you repeatedly its designed as 6K and would use the TS-1400). But lets say no worries, lets use the 401 variant the one you cited for the AH-1W, I did the calculation for you its around 580 shp extra, and not sure why you would use a 20-30 years older version of an engine instead of the latest version of the one Turkey already produces, so.. weaker, heavier, bigger than TS-1400, older metallurgy etc etc. all that size and weight of the 701D but none of the upside.

But thats not even the real point, lets say ok it is possible for you to put a 401 variant on a 629(in the same way you can put a 30 year old V12 that makes similar Horse power as a modern V6 in V6 type car, i.e. 1690 shp vs 1400 shp)

Lets say its possible, where are you going to get this engine? The Turkish License is for the Current 701D, to produce a different version of the T700, as Merzifonlu kindly pointed out, Needs a new agreement signed with GE/US, and its different from the current ones already produced in Turkey or still in production.

So ok, lets say you ignore all that, and decide yes we will sign a new agreement(tech transfer and knowhow and other details for local production transferred) to produce a different version. Ok, but if signing a new agreement is ok? why sign a contract for the 401(which btw idk if other versions of the 401 are even in production anymore anywhere, GE only lists the 401C, I know they are still producing the 401C(1,800 shp not 1690 shp, for the AH-1Z), but lets says they take the 401C and they give you a derated version of it so bring it to AH-1W levels from the 90s. Lets grant you all these absurdities for the amusement. lol

The question then becomes why are you going through all that, if you are going to sign an agreement why not just sign one for the GE CT7-8A(another variant of the T700, the only downside is technically this is a commercial version) which has similar parameters(2,500-3,000 shp depending on subvariant) for the 12K class you are getting with the Ukrainian VK-2500.

None of this makes any sense, but instead of just admitting oh I misspoke or oh, I got it wrong, no worries, you decided to go on a rant saying I don't know what im talking about, making absurd arguments, grasping at straws, then throwing insults and making yourself look silly and bitter. lol

 

[LegionnairE]

Ok? still the wrong engine for the 629

Your opinion is noted. I can't be bothered with reading the rest of this shit.

T-700 is an engine we know well, we have parts, we have spares. We have technical crews who know how to work with it. There's a market for NATO customers who may want to replace their aging platforms. It's a viable option for any future attack helicopter not just T629

I am tired of this clown circus, I am tired of reading horeshit after horseshit. There are people on this site whose opinions I actually value. You're not one of them. Don't waste my time any further.

 

[hyperman]

Your opinion is noted. I can't be bothered with reading the rest of this shit.

Its not an opinion. Its basic logic derived reality. This is the equivalent of this joke by Gino D'Acampo. "If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bike".



The whole purpose of the 629 is defeated if using a 20-30 year old 401 variant of the t700 engine with performance from the 90s.

its neither logical nor is it realistic, I explained why in detail above, but you decided it was too much text. And your ego will not accept it either way, so the point is moot.

So lets leave it at that, no point in continuing.