Türkiye and the Balkans | News & Discussion

Serbian president accused of joining civilian-killing ‘sniper safaris’ in Sarajevo

Aleksandar Vucic said to have been present at military position from where foreigners allegedly shot at city’s residents during Bosnian War

There's video evidence of him being at the 'front' holding some kind of firearm:

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He claims this is an umbrella. Yeah, of course, who doesn't walk around with an umbrella on a sunny, warm day?
 
Yes, despite these foreigners paying to execute civilians, and the numerous foreign mercenaries (Russian, Romanian, Greek, Ukrainian, Montenegrins), arms embargo, back stabbing Croatia who also invaded parts of Bosnia, two-faced west, all that energy to destroy Bosnia failed. Serbs in (30%) today hold bosnian passports as do the croats living in BiH.
 
Bosnian army raiding sniper nests around Sarajevo having to fight uphill and take their positions.

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I didn't realize how much of an Evil POS this guy war.
 
and the numerous foreign mercenaries (Russian, Romanian, Greek, Ukrainian, Montenegrins),
It's easy to call volunteers on the other side "mercenaries". There were mercenaries on the Croatian side and I think in the ArBiH too,if I'm not mistaken. US Private security companies were training some Croats for sure. But a lot of people joined as volunteers for ideological reasons. If there were mercenaries on the Bosnian Serb side,I think it was part of the Russians/Ukrainians.
, arms embargo, back stabbing Croatia who also invaded parts of Bosnia,
You knew from the beginning you were going to have an arms embargo,that you lacked heavy weapons,but Izetbegovic insisted to declare independence.

two-faced west,
What two-faced West,they basically handed you independence by the end. I'm not saying the ArBiH and HVO weren't winning,they were,but part of the Bosnian Serb defeats were because of NATO threats and Operation Deliberate Force.

Serbs in (30%) today hold bosnian passports as do the croats living in BiH.
Are you complaining about that or...I don't know,just stating it? That's what federalism is about,what can you do.
 
It's easy to call volunteers on the other side "mercenaries". There were mercenaries on the Croatian side and I think in the ArBiH too,if I'm not mistaken. US Private security companies were training some Croats for sure. But a lot of people joined as volunteers for ideological reasons. If there were mercenaries on the Bosnian Serb side,I think it was part of the Russians/Ukrainians.

In late 1992, early 1993, the flow of Mujaheddin fighters started arriving, but were controversial, their presence was heavily used in propaganda by Serb and Croat forces to portray the Bosnian government as Islamic Extremists. The difference was, that at the start of the war in April 1992, volunteers/mercenaries were already organized units fighting for the serbs, many came to pillage and steal property and were from Orthodox countries, which is symbolic for Orthodox Christians comings to fight Muslims and take revenge on the Ottoman historical presence in the Balkans.

You knew from the beginning you were going to have an arms embargo,that you lacked heavy weapons,but Izetbegovic insisted to declare independence.

War was inevitable, the infamous "Karadordevo" meeting from March 1991 between Milosevic and Croatian president Tudjman to partition Bosnia between themselves shows the premeditated nature of the partition plans. Based on accounts of participants and later investigations by the ICTY, was that the two leaders agreed in principle to dismantle Bosnia and Herzegovina and divide its territory between Serbia and Croatia. Although, this was already known in 1991, as news outlets reported on the meeting, and Bosnian politicians received information about the plans, so by declaring independence, it provided Bosnians a legal framework to fight back within the limits of a Nation State, and by doing so, would avoid being labeled as terrorists or resistance fighters, but in stead they formed a national army, thereby, turning the tables. This deal between Serbia and Croatia would have needed a war, as they would not be able to create ethnic territories without a war to displace the Bosniaks and others who didn't drink their cool-aid. To also keep in mind, Bosniaks liked Yugoslavia, well at least Tito's YU, and this is why we declared independence only after Slovenia, Croatia and Macedonia did, only when we saw that YU was for sure dead, did we also leave the sinking ship to save our people.

What two-faced West,they basically handed you independence by the end. I'm not saying the ArBiH and HVO weren't winning,they were,but part of the Bosnian Serb defeats were because of NATO threats and Operation Deliberate Force.

The Bosnian army was the necessary condition for Bosnia's survival. All other factors, international diplomacy, recognition and aid, would have been irrelevant if there had been no military force on the ground to defend the state and represent its sovereignty. The ARBIH's resistance, despite its immense suffering and sacrifice, ensured that BIH remained a political and military reality, forcing the "WEST" to acknowledge it and ultimately leading to its preservation. Nothing was handed, this is not how international politics works.

BIH would have surely been completely carved up and absorbed by Serbia and Croatia. The survival of the Bosnian state is directly attributable to the military fight of the ARBIH.

Are you complaining about that or...I don't know,just stating it? That's what federalism is about,what can you do.

It is a good thing, considering Belgrade's initial plans to absorb 70% of Bosnia and 35-40% of Croatia, and form a new larger/greater Serbia, their plan was dismantled. They lost everything in Croatia, in Bosnia they received 49% of the territory in the form of an entity, which does not have fiscal, monetary, defense, etc, sovereignty, all Serbs are Bosnian citizens, pay taxes, and so on, although they do have local autonomy. Finally, Belgrade also lost Kosovo, just saying, it is a string of losses despite having most of the former YU Army under their control, they didn't perform well.

I don't want to derail this thread, would be happy to discuss with you via private message, but the war in Bosnia was complex, Bosniaks, a small peoplee, fought back, never gave up and ultimately achieved their overarching goal of preserving BIH as a state. I just spoke to you about our fight against Serbs, but we also fought Croats from late 1992-1994 and also defeated them as the end result of that was that the Bosnian Croats lost their claims to create their own state called the "Herzeg-Bosnia", this is evident in the "Washington" agreement in 1994 which does not even mention the "Herzeg-Bosnia" in it.
 
to portray the Bosnian government as Islamic Extremists.
I don't think the Bosnian Muslim Army in its majority was anything like that,I think all three sides were more or less the same as Yugoslavs. But,the problem was the foreigners who came to fight on the Bosnian government's side,were largely radicals and wanted to spread their ideology,that's why there were a few incidents of hostilities between Bosnian ArBiH soldiers and units of mudzas,for example I remember reading about an incident were local soldiers were drinking beer and foreigners went nuts about it.

were already organized units fighting for the serbs, many came to pillage and steal property and were from Orthodox countries,
Who the heck came to pillage and steal property? Maybe a few Russians or Ukrainians came for that.

War was inevitable, the infamous "Karadordevo" meeting from March 1991 between Milosevic and Croatian president Tudjman to partition Bosnia between themselves
It failed,they fell out on that I think.

What I know is that Bosnian Serbs wanted to remain part of the federation. A deal could have been made to leave them at that and form BiH with the Croats and few Serbs who wanted independence. But then again three Croats could have wanted to join Croatia.

The legacy of communism,like in the Soviet Union,were they often gave territory of one ethnic group to another or mixed populations,in order not to have ethnic majority in some places. Which ended up creating the problems like Crimea,South Ossetia,Abkhazia,
Nagorno-Karabakh,Naxicevan, Tajikistan,Kyrgyzstan,Transnistria, Kaliningrad etc.
 
I don't think the Bosnian Muslim Army in its majority was anything like that,I think all three sides were more or less the same as Yugoslavs. But,the problem was the foreigners who came to fight on the Bosnian government's side,were largely radicals and wanted to spread their ideology,that's why there were a few incidents of hostilities between Bosnian ArBiH soldiers and units of mudzas,for example I remember reading about an incident were local soldiers were drinking beer and foreigners went nuts about it.
Correct, these radicals were largely rejected by the Bosniaks, and really provided no advantage on the battle field, it was very useful for Serbia and Croatia to use it as a propaganda tool. Some officers in the ranks of the ARBIH were working for the Serbian "KOS" or former Yugoslav National Army counter intelligence, who worked to facilitate the transfer of these radicals. We had some "communist" Bosniaks in the ranks, placed there for a reason.

Who the heck came to pillage and steal property? Maybe a few Russians or Ukrainians came for that.
All volunteers/mercenaries did, especially gold, silver, valuable possession from homes, all that was done, some even carried TVs and refrigerators on their backs out of Bosniak homes, there are images and videos about this. I can recall that during early 1992, our guys carried out a counter offensive in the neighborhood of "OTES" in Sarajevo and recovered numerous dead Romanians, it was all over the TV at the time.
It failed,they fell out on that I think.
What I know is that Bosnian Serbs wanted to remain part of the federation. A deal could have been made to leave them at that and form BiH with the Croats and few Serbs who wanted independence. But then again three Croats could have wanted to join Croatia.

The legacy of communism,like in the Soviet Union,were they often gave territory of one ethnic group to another or mixed populations,in order not to have ethnic majority in some places. Which ended up creating the problems like Crimea,South Ossetia,Abkhazia,
Nagorno-Karabakh,Naxicevan, Tajikistan,Kyrgyzstan,Transnistria, Kaliningrad etc.

The Karadjordjevo meeting never failed, it was further supported by the Graz Agreement from May 1992 which proposed a ceasefire between the Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats and outlined a rough division of territory, effectively allowing them to concentrate their forces on fighting the ARBIH. This meeting effectively put the Milosevic-Tudjman principles from Karadjordjevo into a more concrete, military strategic framework.

I don't see how a deal could have been made when the country was completely inter-ethnically mixed, especially the eastern border areas with Serbia where most towns and cities were Bosniak majority, this could not have occurred without a large fight and displacement. Also you have to consider that around 70% of the people in BIH are not Serbs, perhaps your proposal would work if there were truly hegemonic ethnic territories in BIH, and could have been given, but Bosniaks feel an immense connection to those borders, going back to the Congress of Berlin, and prior to that during Ottoman rule, Bosnia had it's internal borders within the empire, and then the tradition of Bosnian mied-evil kingdom, even though Muslim, many Bosniaks celebrate that period and feel as though they are direct descendants, it would be a big pill to swallow for Bosniaks to forcefully remove their own people from towns that were part of a Bosnia in one form or another for 700-800 years.
 
All volunteers/mercenaries did, especially gold, silver, valuable possession from homes, all that was done, some even carried TVs and refrigerators on their backs out of Bosniak homes, there are images and videos about this.
That's extreme generalizing when you say "all volunteers/mercenaries".

The Karadjordjevo meeting never failed, it was further supported by the Graz Agreement from May 1992 which proposed a ceasefire between the Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats and outlined a rough division of territory, effectively allowing them to concentrate their forces on fighting the ARBIH. This meeting effectively put the Milosevic-Tudjman principles from Karadjordjevo into a more concrete, military strategic framework.
It ended up failing,they didn't get what they wanted and they ended up fighting each other.

I don't see how a deal could have been made when the country was completely inter-ethnically mixed, especially the eastern border areas with Serbia where most towns and cities were Bosniak majority, this could not have occurred without a large fight and displacement
Yes,it's hard but there could have been an agreement.


Bosnia_Herzegovina_Ethnic_1991.png

Linking the vast majority Bosniak and Croat areas to incorporate them in BiH and have Serb majority remain part of Yugoslavia. And work the roads,border crossings, infastracture like a loose federation.

It would be a headache to figure it all out and agree,but it would be worth not having a war.

Then again,we're not Germany,Switzerland and Netherlands to have friendly agreements and exclaves of one country in the territory of the other,we're in the Balkans and we're way more stubborn and think punching the computer will fix the problem.
 
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🇹🇷🇷🇸 Serbian President Vucic has once again blamed Turkey.

Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic, in his speech at the opening of the Ambassadors Conference organized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said the following on the matter:

“The United States and Turkey are openly arming the Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija; their sole aim is to directly threaten Serbia and its territorial integrity.

We are cornered, we will fight for our own interests and we will protect our own interests.”

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🇹🇷🇷🇸 Serbian President Vucic has once again blamed Turkey.

Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic, in his speech at the opening of the Ambassadors Conference organized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said the following on the matter:

“The United States and Turkey are openly arming the Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija; their sole aim is to directly threaten Serbia and its territorial integrity.

We are cornered, we will fight for our own interests and we will protect our own interests.”

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Its very interesting that the Israelis are arming both the Serbians and the Albanians.
 

Turkey didn't promise Serbia anything with TB2s or whatever, he is delusional or maybe he misinterpreted, Turkey will not sell anything significant to Serbia unless the Kosovo issue is settled.

Those small arms, Serbia bought on its own via the private market, Small arms exports are not significantly restricted. Even Greece has bought small arms and small drones from Turkish private sellers.
 

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