Türkiye and the Balkans | News & Discussion

[hyperman]

 

[hyperman]

They are planning shit in the Balkans.

 

[hyperman]

 

[Damir]

They are planning shit in the Balkans.

They have long been present in Bosnia; first with Bosnian Croats and then with Bosnian Serbs, they have been slowly paving the way to permanently eliminate us Bosniaks from the country. As if the misfortune of having aggressive neighbors descend upon us, with European backing, were not enough, vultures from Israel have also been present in our state for several years now. When the moment comes for a new war to break out in Bosnia, what will Türkiye do?

Bosnia and the Bosniaks made a massive contribution to the Ottoman Empire; our soldiers fought everywhere from Vienna and Azov to Gallipoli, and from Palestine to Egypt yet how did the Ottoman Empire repay us? By destroying our statehood and the human capital essential for our survival in Christian Europe. Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, we have faced constant blows, leaving us reduced to a mere remnant in Bosnia confined to just 33% of the territory while in the rest of our homeland, now appropriated by neighboring states, we remain only in traces.

In the event of another war, without external support and assistance, we are doomed to final extinction.

 

[hyperman]

They have long been present in Bosnia; first with Bosnian Croats and then with Bosnian Serbs, they have been slowly paving the way to permanently eliminate us Bosniaks from the country. As if the misfortune of having aggressive neighbors descend upon us, with European backing, were not enough, vultures from Israel have also been present in our state for several years now. When the moment comes for a new war to break out in Bosnia, what will Türkiye do?

Bosnia and the Bosniaks made a massive contribution to the Ottoman Empire; our soldiers fought everywhere from Vienna and Azov to Gallipoli, and from Palestine to Egypt yet how did the Ottoman Empire repay us? By destroying our statehood and the human capital essential for our survival in Christian Europe. Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, we have faced constant blows, leaving us reduced to a mere remnant in Bosnia confined to just 33% of the territory while in the rest of our homeland, now appropriated by neighboring states, we remain only in traces.

In the event of another war, without external support and assistance, we are doomed to final extinction.

This is why its important to build relations with Albania and Kosovo as well as deconflict issues with Croatia.

 

[Damir]

This is why its important to build relations with Albania and Kosovo as well as deconflict issues with Croatia.

Since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Croatia alongside Serbia and with open or tacit European support has continuously worked toward our destruction and the annexation of parts of Bosnia. Consequently establishing any form of cooperation or even a tacit peace with Croats is simply impossible. Although we constitute the majority of the population in Bosnia, Bosnian Serbs and Croats hold the majority of political and other forms of power following the Dayton Peace Agreement, leaving us officially unable to pursue cooperation with Albania and Kosovo beyond the cultural and folkloric levels.

Moreover, Albanians in Albania and Kosovo possess a primarily national rather than an Islamic religious consciousness thus they feel no connection to us nor do they seek one.

Furthermore, regarding the remnants of our homeland where we still maintain a trace presence in Serbia, Montenegro and Kosovo Albanians offer us the option of adopting an Albanian identity rather than engaging in cooperation.

That is why in my previous post I posed the rhetorical question of what Türkiye, as the successor to the Ottoman Empire, would do in the event of a future war in Bosnia. Looking back at Türkiye’s past actions, there is only one answer ... nothing.

During the war and the dual aggression of the 1990s the "miracle of Bosnian resistance" occurred despite a total blockade and an arms embargo we managed to survive through a fierce struggle. What struck us at the time was the complete absence of any Turkish assistance unlike the support we received from Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent other Arab nations.

 

[MMM-E]

During the war and the dual aggression of the 1990s the "miracle of Bosnian resistance" occurred despite a total blockade and an arms embargo we managed to survive through a fierce struggle. What struck us at the time was the complete absence of any Turkish assistance unlike the support we received from Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent other Arab nations.

1 -- Türkiye recognized Bosnia-Herzegovina's independence in 1992

2 -- Türkiye undertook diplomatic initiatives with the United Nations and NATO to halt the Serb attacks

3 -- To circumvent the international arms embargo, Türkiye supplied significant quantities of arms, ammunition and logistical supplies to the Bosnian Army through covert channels particularly via Croatia

4 -- Bosnian soldiers and officers were provided with secret military training in Türkiye, and these soldiers were subsequently sent to the front.

5 -- The Government agencies and civil society organizations sent food, medicine, and financial aid to Bosnia

6 -- During the war, Türkiye opened its doors to tens of thousands of Bosniak refugees fleeing Serb atrocities, providing them with shelter, healthcare and educational opportunities in Turkiye


7 -- The Turkish Air Force actively participated with its F-16 squadrons in NATO's Operation Deny Flight which was conducted to enforce the no fly zone over Bosnia

Turkish Pilots also took part in the NATO bombing raids carried out against Serb positions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Croat-Bosniak Alliance:
At one stage of the war, Bosniaks and Croats had begun to clash with each other.
The President of Turkiye at the time, Süleyman Demirel and Turkish diplomacy directly mediated diplomatic processes such as the Split Agreement (1995) that reconciled the two sides and enabled them to act jointly against the Serbs


Following the Dayton Peace Agreement (1995) signed after the war, the Turkish Armed Forces continued to support Bosnia's security by actively participating in peacekeeping missions (IFOR and SFOR) in the region.

 

[MMM-E]

In fact, soldiers from the Turkish army even went to Bosnia ( without identification ) served as a strategist and trainer to fight against the Serbs though this is unofficial information, to avoid a diplomatic crisis

At that time, not only active-duty soldiers but also a large number of civilian Turkish volunteers from various political or ideological groups went from Türkiye to Bosnia to fight against the Serbs

What struck us at the time was the complete absence of any Turkish assistance unlike the support we received from Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent other Arab nations.

Can you tell me please what extra actions Iran and Saudi Arabia or Pakistan have taken ?

 

[Damir]

Can you tell me please what extra actions Iran and Saudi Arabia or Pakistan have taken ?

With some assistance from other Gulf states, Saudi Arabia leveraged its money and influence with the US to secure permission despite the arms embargo for us to smuggle in small quantities of infantry and artillery ammunition from Iran and Pakistan. Had it not been for that antiarmor ammunition, Bosnia would not exist today nor would I be writing on this forum right now.

 

[MMM-E]

With some assistance from other Gulf states, Saudi Arabia leveraged its money and influence with the US to secure permission despite the arms embargo for us to smuggle in small quantities of infantry and artillery ammunition from Iran and Pakistan. Had it not been for that antiarmor ammunition, Bosnia would not exist today nor would I be writing on this forum right now.

Turkiye did all the things you mentioned, and even more .. I listed 7 things Turkiye has done

but you are biased and anti-Turkiye

Pray for Türkiye, for it reconciled the Bosniaks with the Croats, uniting them against the Serbs

Thanks to this Turkish efforts , We bypassed the arms embargo via Croatia and flooded Bosnia with weapons and ammunition.


even the Turkish Air Force actively participated with its F-16 squadrons in NATO's Operation Deny Flight which was conducted to enforce the no fly zone over Bosnia and took part in the NATO bombing raids carried out against Serb positions

 

[Damir]

In fact, soldiers from the Turkish army even went to Bosnia ( without identification ) served as a strategist and trainer to fight against the Serbs though this is unofficial information, to avoid a diplomatic crisis

At that time, not only active-duty soldiers but also a large number of civilian Turkish volunteers from various political or ideological groups went from Türkiye to Bosnia to fight against the Serbs

In black and white, can you prove it? Because I was in besieged Sarajevo during the war, and I am not aware of any instance of Turkish forces being present in any number or form on the Sarajevo battlefront or other battlefields across Bosnia. The presence of Iranian instructors and Arab volunteers is a known fact.

Nevertheless, let the past remain the past and what was is no longer important, what is important is what will be in the future and Turkey's relationship with Bosnia.

I think I have finished my participation in this thread with this message.

 

[MMM-E]

The presence of Iranian instructors and Arab volunteers is a known fact.

then you should prove it
So, when it comes to Bosnia a land ruled by Turks for centuries , it won't be Turkiye, but rather Saudi Arabia and Iran that have never lifted a finger to help any Muslim that will step in Bosnia ? Is that how it is?




You did not defeat the Serbs with just a few light weapons sent by other Countries

Had it not been for the NATO operation in which Turkish Air Force also participated, there would be no country called Bosnia today

 

[MMM-E]

Nevertheless, let the past remain the past and what was is no longer important, what is important is what will be in the future and Turkey's relationship with Bosnia.

İf the Serbs attacked Bosnia in 2026 Turkiye with its current Leader ( President ERDOGAN ) strength and military capabilities would have put the Serbs in their place within a few days


Lately, Israel has been provoking Serbia against Turkiye
Even Israel cannot save the Serbs

Turkiye would defer to neither Russia nor any other power; fear no one

 

[GoatsMilk]

In black and white, can you prove it? Because I was in besieged Sarajevo during the war, and I am not aware of any instance of Turkish forces being present in any number or form on the Sarajevo battlefront or other battlefields across Bosnia. The presence of Iranian instructors and Arab volunteers is a known fact.

Nevertheless, let the past remain the past and what was is no longer important, what is important is what will be in the future and Turkey's relationship with Bosnia.

I think I have finished my participation in this thread with this message.

A few hundred years ago Turkish Muslims made the majority in the Balkans. As Ottoman power waned extermination campaigns took place against the Turks. I think over 6 million were exterminated by white Christians.

Muslims should be grateful for the last 1000 years when they were in trouble from east to west powerful Turkic armies appeared. For us Turks, when we fail there is nothing but death for us. There is no hope for us outside of us. No one is coming to save us in the same way the Turks constantly came and saved the Muslims in the past.

Truthfully the only Muslim group I've seen any consistent respect for the Turks comes from the Muslims of pakistan/india and bangladesh. I suspect what makes these people different is they probably have some Turkic ancestry within them. Hence why they intrinsically feel proud of all the great Turkic empires. They don't see the Turks as external invader/conqueror, they see them as a part of them.

The rest of the Muslims whether it be arabs, iranians, etc tend to feel a resentment towards Turkish rule. They tend to place all their current failure on being ruled by Turks. But in reality, i don't think these people have the qualities to take on the nordic/germanic tribes of europe. Basically the elite houses of the western world.

 

[Damir]

A few hundred years ago Turkish Muslims made the majority in the Balkans. As Ottoman power waned extermination campaigns took place against the Turks. I think over 6 million were exterminated by white Christians.

Muslims should be grateful for the last 1000 years when they were in trouble from east to west powerful Turkic armies appeared. For us Turks, when we fail there is nothing but death for us. There is no hope for us outside of us. No one is coming to save us in the same way the Turks constantly came and saved the Muslims in the past.

Truthfully the only Muslim group I've seen any consistent respect for the Turks comes from the Muslims of pakistan/india and bangladesh. I suspect what makes these people different is they probably have some Turkic ancestry within them. Hence why they intrinsically feel proud of all the great Turkic empires. They don't see the Turks as external invader/conqueror, they see them as a part of them.

The rest of the Muslims whether it be arabs, iranians, etc tend to feel a resentment towards Turkish rule. They tend to place all their current failure on being ruled by Turks. But in reality, i don't think these people have the qualities to take on the nordic/germanic tribes of europe. Basically the elite houses of the western world.

I have no desire to correct inaccuracies or respond in detail to the posts written by you and your colleague.

I can only suggest that, if you have the time, you study the history of Bosnia and the Bosniaks more closely. This would help you understand us and appreciate our contribution to the Ottoman Empire. As well as grasp that our current situation is a direct consequence of the suppression of our desire for autonomy during the empire's decline. We earned this fate by serving as the bulwark of the empire's western borders for over four centuries despite the fact that there was never actually a turkish army in Bosnia while also maintaining a military presence throughout the rest of the empire. Instead of using autonomy to focus on ourselves and strengthen Bosnia ahead of the decisive battles and wars for survival against the West, we were forced to continue expending our human and other resources for the Ottoman Empire. Consequently, we lacked the strength to resist the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy during the decisive conflict that cost us our sovereignty. A period of devastation followed, lasting until the recent war in Bosnia, when we rebuilt our army from scratch, survived, and preserved Bosnia’s statehood even though aggression and genocide reduced us to holding only 33% of the territory. In this context, try to understand my "resentment" regarding Turkey's conduct toward us from the loss of our statehood until the recent war.

As I wrote earlier, the past should remain in the past; what matters are our actions in the present and the future.