Türkiye vs Israel - tensions, conflicts and rivalry | Latest News and Updates

[mythbuster]

Pakistan just needs the $$. The massive Chinese industry is solidly behind Pakistan but even with the Chinese discounted weapons sales to Pakistan, $$ is needed. Not only $$ is needed in case of a conflict but the ability to absorb billions of $$ losses to the economy which relies heavily on the Western trade/commerce.
The Saudis have the $$$ but are they really available to anyone, including to themselves, is questionable. Washington froze $300 billion of Russian assets. Saudis are even more vulnerable.

It will be very naive of you if you are expecting $$$ from Saudi Arabia or any other source , at best you will get couple of billions of loans and rollovers... you must learn to develop with whatever resources you have and the resources are there..... some posters are expecting some massive influx of military tech from Turkey , at best you will get drone tech and tidbits of other things here and there....our military is tied with Chinese military industrial complex and it will stay like that for a foreseeable future.

 

[KingQamaR]

I would for now, discount all the "development" projects that Turkiye are doing, because the military capability and military value will be 10 years from now if they are successful in their testing, and them deployed on "mass". Right now, very little translate to on field military capability. Turkiye is 1/3 of the way through their modernization and they have created capability gaps in that transition period that can be exploited by their enemies. That was always the risk as it is difficult to fund both local development and keep current capability relevant.

The point, and only point I am making is that the current Makkah Pact, is dead on arrival if either India or Israel decide to "test" the pact right now, this instance.... as none of the members has any spare capacity to give to the other members if they are attacked. Future plans are understood, but right now the execution is poorly though out.

The only grouping that works in the pact are Turkiye and Saudi, who have enough capability to take on Israel on in a combined manner, as they both face the same "enemy" etc.

It comes down to the hard logic of numbers on field "now", that translate into military capability now unfortunately.

Looking to long term . Pakistan's military force is made up from Chinese weapons and planes. So China is also now providing to its ally Pakistan with modern state of art technology more critical its live satellite feed to Pakistan military. Something Turkey and Saudis will never have access too. . In the future PAF will be given chines 5TH Generation fighter Jets which will make PAF the spear and the shield. Of this pact.

 

[mythbuster]

They (ZIOs) are edging to go to war with Turkey this is one way of drawing Turkey in to war by bombing Ankaras national interests Northern Syria without attacking a NATO country.

No , it's just a dream of Iranian fanboys and ayatullahs toys .

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan just needs the $$. The massive Chinese industry is solidly behind Pakistan but even with the Chinese discounted weapons sales to Pakistan, $$ is needed. Not only $$ is needed in case of a conflict but the ability to absorb billions of $$ losses to the economy which relies heavily on the Western trade/commerce.
The Saudis have the $$$ but are they really available to anyone, including to themselves, is questionable. Washington froze $300 billion of Russian assets. Saudis are even more vulnerable.

Pakistan is the one and only country that can fill in the military gaps/holes in the Makkah alliance quickly, very quickly if Saud/Türkiye help with the funding of a "PAF force" that is dedicated to the Makkah pact, ie its focus is the Makkah pact and not "just" India. ie shared command and control over the force maybe ?

 

[KingQamaR]

Our resident Greek here is desperate, the Long Term outlook favors Turkey both on the Israeli front and the Greek front. Both are desperate to disrupt that trajectory by having a conflict sooner rather than later, as both feel that its better to have a conflict now rather than later when the odds are worse. The Turks also understand this matter and are eager to not spoil long term trajectories that the enemy is desperate to disrupt.

Turkey is stronger today than it was 10 years ago or 15 years ago. And will be far stronger in 10 to 15 year from Today. The same cannot be said for the Greeks nor the Israel for various reasons, they may be weaker than today. So they would rather have a fight before than later, as the momentum favors Turkiye.

I agree totally. ZIOs are trying really hard to get Ankara into a needles war. It would slow down and be disruptive to Ankaras progress in anti air, jets, tanks , drones submarines and ships. I hope Ankara does not fall for it

 

[Ali_Baba]

A question: Is Turkey willing to go to war with Iran for the sake of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf?

Yes they will. "Past behavior is not really indicative of future performance.."

I have no doubt that the political will exists for each member of the pact to militarily defend other members of the pact.

I do question the technical military capabilities right now for that.

 

[KingQamaR]

Turkey has a huge home grown arms industry. Saudis have the fiancés. Pakistan has the man power and nukes plus other military growing assets air sea etc, all the 3 countries complement each other. They just need it work

 

[mythbuster]

Our resident Greek here is desperate, the Long Term outlook favors Turkey both on the Israeli front and the Greek front. Both are desperate to disrupt that trajectory by having a conflict sooner rather than later, as both feel that its better to have a conflict now rather than later when the odds are worse. The Turks also understand this matter and are eager to not spoil long term trajectories that the enemy is desperate to disrupt.

Turkey is stronger today than it was 10 years ago or 15 years ago. And will be far stronger in 10 to 15 year from Today. The same cannot be said for the Greeks nor the Israel for various reasons, they may be weaker than today. So they would rather have a fight before than later, as the momentum favors Turkiye.

Forget long-term benefits of turkey , there is no short term benefit for Israeli and Greeks to start a war with turkey now......minor skirmishes here and there aside , there's no existential threat to Pakistan and Turkey.

 

[Meengla]

It will be very naive of you if you are expecting $$$ from Saudi Arabia or any other source , at best you will get couple of billions of loans and rollovers... you must learn to develop with whatever resources you have and the resources are there..... some posters are expecting some massive influx of military tech from Turkey , at best you will get drone tech and tidbits of other things here and there....our military is tied with Chinese military industrial complex and it will stay like that for a foreseeable future.

Pakistan had to beg for months just to get a mere $1 billion from the IMF in 2022. Any help from KSA is good. BTW, since this war on Iran, the Saudis have extended considerable help to Pakistan, starting with the billions deposited into Pakistan when the UAE asked for its money back from Pakistan. And there are more coming.
It is not that KSA can't or won't want to help Pakistan: Pakistan has put its soldiers' lives at risk to protect Saudi Arabia by the recent deployments there. The issue is the Saudi vulnerability to the fiscal tools which Washington wields over Saudi Arabia and those are very powerful tools!

 

[Anatolia]

A stupid thread and with even stupider arguments.... Israel will never dare to attack Turkey , after Makkah alliance that never becomes never ever....as long as alliance holds Israel will not attack Saudi Arabia..... Pakistan is in a different league than Turkey and Saudi Arabia.... first , Israel has no direct conflict with Pakistan , Israel has no reason to go to war with Pakistan .... second , Israeli are not stupid and suicidal.... Israeli know what can be the worst case scenario in case of war with Pakistan.....this Makkah alliance is strictly for the protection of middle east ( east of Suez) ...
Yes , Pakistan may get some financial benefits and technology however it dwarfs in comparison to what Pakistan is giving to middle east.

I get the point you’re making, but let’s be honest here — there’s very little doubt that Israel would hit Türkiye if it felt it had the opportunity or strategic cover. Hitting Syrian bases is one thing; striking Turkish assets directly is another. But we should never say “never.” The region changes fast, alliances shift, and nobody knows what the next decade looks like.

And that’s exactly why this whole Mecca Pact needs to be judged realistically. If Türkiye cannot even handle a tiny Israel, then what’s the point of forming a grand alliance? It would be embarrassing to talk about regional leadership while being unable to deter or respond to a country that relies heavily on US/Western backing for its operations.

The real question is: can Türkiye deal with Israel in proxy environments — Syria, Libya, the Eastern Mediterranean — where Israel gets indirect support from the US and Europe? Right now, it’s hard to give a confident answer. We just saw them strike Syria and we didn’t respond. That alone tells you where things currently stand.

But in the long run, I’m quietly confident. Türkiye’s defence programmes are moving in the right direction. KAAN, TF‑2000, Hisar/Gökdeniz, early‑warning systems, electronic warfare — all of this needs another five years to fully mature. Once that ecosystem is complete, the balance of power will look very different.

At this minute? It’s complicated.

In five years? A very different story.

That’s why timing matters.

 

[Ali_Baba]

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They already attacked this airbase - runways are knocked out. Old news?

 

[Meengla]

I agree totally. ZIOs are trying really hard to get Ankara into a needles war. It would slow down and be disruptive to Ankaras progress in anti air, jets, tanks , drones submarines and ships. I hope Ankara does not fall for it

I doubt the Israelis are itching to take on Turkiye. The war on Iran has proven to be a big mistake for Israel. Trump seems like going back to the Democratic Party's stance on Israel: Support Israel but not its expansionism. Then there are the deployments of the Pakistani troops in Saudi Arabia and my guess is they are being fortified.
Israel is not some God: It has made repeated blunders like attacking Qatar, then the war on Iran, then the recent attack on an airbase in Syria. And from the statements of some Israeli top officials, Israel seems like a desperate, isolated state which must be acutely aware that its one and last true source President Trump is also not the same supportive one.

 

[mythbuster]

Pakistan had to beg for months just to get a mere $1 billion from the IMF in 2022. Any help from KSA is good. BTW, since this war on Iran, the Saudis have extended considerable help to Pakistan, starting with the billions deposited into Pakistan when the UAE asked for its money back from Pakistan. And there are more coming.
It is not that KSA can't or won't want to help Pakistan: Pakistan has put its soldiers' lives at risk to protect Saudi Arabia by the recent deployments there. The issue is the Saudi vulnerability to the fiscal tools which Washington wields over Saudi Arabia and those are very powerful tools!

Pakistan needs to get rid of this beggar / muskeen frame of mind ....what did KSA do ? Gave us 3 billions $ in loans to payoff UAE loans... it's no fukin big deal nor is it going to change our fortunes ....we need deep rooted structural reforms in our entire system , without those reforms 10s of billions $ of outside assistance will fall into the pit .

 

[Meengla]

Pakistan needs to get rid of this beggar / muskeen frame of mind ....what did KSA do ? Gave us 3 billions $ in loans to payoff UAE loans... it's no fukin big deal nor is it going to change our fortunes ....we need deep rooted structural reforms in our entire system , without those reforms 10s of billions $ of outside assistance will fall into the pit .

Mere Bhai. You are right but when I look at the ruling elite of the Pakistani society--and I count all political parties and the military in that elite group--then in this forum we just have to accept the lesser evil from that elite group. But it is not just the 'elites': The whole society reflects that 'elite'. Maybe in case of Pakistan it is more pronounced but other poor countries also suffer that in varying degrees. In short, there is no 'we' in Pakistan, as much as I hope there was some entity which would do the required reforms and changes. I don't want to get into Pakistan's politics here.

 

[KingQamaR]

I doubt the Israelis are itching to take on Turkiye. The war on Iran has proven to be a big mistake for Israel. Trump seems like going back to the Democratic Party's stance on Israel: Support Israel but not its expansionism. Then there are the deployments of the Pakistani troops in Saudi Arabia and my guess is they are being fortified.
Israel is not some God: It has made repeated blunders like attacking Qatar, then the war on Iran, then the recent attack on an airbase in Syria. And from the statements of some Israeli top officials, Israel seems like a desperate, isolated state which must be acutely aware that its one and last true source President Trump is also not the same supportive one.

Israel is not a rational player here my brother. It’s BC , Israel will always get help from dear old US. It’s all the time Israel is backed by the US they will carry on doing attacks against others unless US stops its sickening aid and support.