US Naval shipyard update: 12 Burke destroyers under construction, will add 1,152 VLS cells to fleet over next 4 years

[PakAl]

Correct me if I was wrong, but wasn't the issue for casus belli for Iraq war is not that Iraq "HAD" WMD, but whether the refusal of demand from UN weapon inspector enough to trigger a war?

The fact that whether or not they have WMD does not really matter if this is the casus belli, because they refused to let the Weapon Inspector to check on their site freely. They may not have them, but we wouldn't know, because they don't let us see.

The weapons inspectors were allowed to go to Iraq, they destroyed many long range missiles and claimed we found no WMD but British government and media were claiming saddam will get WMDs within 24 hours. Load of rubbish. I am surprised it's coming from someone like you who claims to be professional on PDF.

 

[PakAl]

Ok Let us compare how many destroyers that US and China have added since 2020:

1. US - 6 Arleigh Burke

2. China - 24 total of Type-052D and Type-055

I am not even including the frigates that China is pumping out like hot cakes that US does not produce at all.

US needs to SERIOUSLY UP ITS GAME as otherwise China is going to leapfrog it within just 10 years, apart from aircraft carriers.

Once China reaches the level they are satisfied with, then they will slow down the production, and will concentrate on replacing the vessels which will retire around 2045s. I don't see any problem for China. After 2030s they will build more powerful submarines, destroyers, frigates, aircraft carriers which will then be able to replace the ones in 2045s. Type 54B frigates is 6000T, type 55 destroyers are powerful enough, both are matured designs. China is lacking in nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers and navy aviation but they will go in full force during 2030s till 2040s once they are satisfied with the level of technology. They will all last till late 2060s.

 

[j_hungary]

He has purposely taken you off topic debating some other BS as chirese fanboys in here were getting slapped with facts by F-22 just let it go.

All these new ships by china with an aging/dying population and no ports to put them all.

I know what he did, I just don't think he will do it seeing that I used to have good interaction with this person in the past in the last forum.

I don't like to do the run around anymore, that's why I was reluctant to join the new forum, and I am very careful as to what I post here, I generally only post when someone I know quote me and/or something I really wanted to post. So, this comes as a surprise to me.

 

[j_hungary]

The weapons inspectors were allowed to go to Iraq, they destroyed many long range missiles and claimed we found no WMD but British government and media were claiming saddam will get WMDs within 24 hours. Load of rubbish. I am surprised it's coming from someone like you who claims to be professional on PDF.

Well, that's not what I interpreted in the Hans Blix report handed to the UN on the March 18, 2003, the immediate beginning of the war. He found that there are not enough information provided by the Iraqi authority before the suspension of the weapon inspection activities.

Now, bear in mind, I am talking about the casus belli, not whether or not this war is legitimate, I mean that's up to whether or not you believe the casus belli was valid. I can discuss my opinion with you in a genuine discussion in term of legality and rules of war. But this is not what I am talking about here, nor what I asked.

Anyway, here are the Hans Blix report from the UN press

UN INSPECTORS FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF PROHIBITED WEAPONS PROGRAMMES AS OF 18 MARCH WITHDRAWAL, HANS BLIX TELLS SECURITY COUNCIL | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

05/06/2003Press ReleaseSC/7777 Security Council 4768th Meeting* (AM) UN INSPECTORS FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF PROHIBITED WEAPONS PROGRAMMES AS OF 18 MARCH WITHDRAWAL, HANS BLIX TELLS SECURITY COUNCIL Says New Environment in Iraq, with Full Access and Cooperation, Should Allow Establishment of Truth...

press.un.org

I will post a bit summery of the report.

The long list of proscribed items unaccounted for had not been shortened by inspections or Iraqi declarations, explanations or documentation, he continued. It was up to Iraq to present items unaccounted for, or present evidence convincing the inspectors that the items did not exist. If that was not done, the international community could not have confidence that past programmes had been terminated. However, “an effective presence of international inspectors would serve as a deterrent against efforts aimed at reactivating or developing new programmes of weapons of mass destruction”, he said.

He said that, while he was aware of the large amounts of proscribed items that still remained unaccounted for, note should be taken of the fact that for many years neither UNSCOM nor UNMOVIC made significant finds of weapons. The lack of finds could be because the items were unilaterally destroyed by the Iraqi authorities, or else because they were effectively concealed by them. He trusted that, in the new environment in Iraq, in which there was full access and cooperation, and in which knowledgeable witnesses should no longer be inhibited to reveal what they knew, it should be possible to establish the truth “we all want to know”.

Following a determination by the Commission that the Al Samoud 2 missile system exceeded range limits set by the Council and, hence, was proscribed, the Commission implemented a programme for destruction, the report says. Some 70 missiles and associated equipment were destroyed under Commission supervision before its operations were suspended. At that time, a decision by the Commission was pending as to whether the Al Fatah missile system, too, exceeded the ranges set by the Council.

The report finds that the long list of proscribed items unaccounted for, and as such resulting in unresolved disarmament issues, was neither shortened by the inspections nor by Iraqi declarations and documentation. From the end of January the Iraqi side, which until then had shown cooperation on process but not in equal measure on substance, devoted much effort to providing explanations and propose methods of inquiry into issues such as the production and destruction of anthrax, VX and long-range missiles. Despite these efforts, little progress was made in the solution of the issues during the time of UNMOVIC’s operations in Iraq.

By the time the inspections were suspended, the Commission had performed a number of inspections trying to verify intelligence information that Iraq had mobile units for the production of biological weapons, the report states further. The Iraqi side denied that any such units existed and provided the Commission with pictures of legitimate vehicles, which, they suggested, could have led to the information. None of the vehicles in these pictures look like the trucks recently described and depicted by the relevant units of the Coalition.

The report finds that the Commission was not able, before the suspension of inspections, to complete its inquiry into the Iraq programmes of remotely piloted vehicles and unmanned aerial vehicles, notably to establish whether any of them were designed for the dissemination of chemical or biological weapons or had longer-than-permitted range. Extensive Iraqi information on the programme was sent as late as 19 March.

So, if you asked me whether or not Iraq had complied to the destruction, that's probably true to some degree, but as the report suggested, they were not able to complete the inquiry before the suspension of program. Now, one can argue whether or not 1441 give the right for non-compliance (which is what this report pointed out) could legitimate the invasion. But as I said, this is not what I asked nor what I wanted to discuss here, since the sensitivities of the subject (Almost got a divorce when I discuss with my wife last time), I will only discuss this issue with formal act of legality and base on international law.

 

[j_hungary]

Actually, the biggest problem is that the Saudis bought the US Aegis system and it didn't work when the Houthis attacked the Saudis.

But it fired on all of them when Iran attacked Israel.

What is really in question now is whether the weapons sold by the US are being remotely controlled. That's the biggest thing that makes the world sick.

Dude, Saudi have no AEGIS system currently, Badr-class, Avante 2200 class, Al Madinah-class and Al Riyadh class all don't come with AEGIS system.

AEGIS system was planned in those future Frigate program that is going to come in a form of LCS hull, the Saudi is still deciding on which platform they are after. How are they going to shoot SM-2 with AEGIS when they have zero SM2 missile and zero AEGIS SPY-1/SPY-3 radar??

You probably confused between Mk41 VLS and AEGIS system. Saudi have MK41 (on Avante 2200 class) but no AEGIS.

 

[MH.Yang]

Dude, Saudi have no AEGIS system currently, Badr-class, Avante 2200 class, Al Madinah-class and Al Riyadh class all don't come with AEGIS system.

AEGIS system was planned in those future Frigate program that is going to come in a form of LCS hull, the Saudi is still deciding on which platform they are after. How are they going to shoot SM-2 with AEGIS when they have zero SM2 missile and zero AEGIS SPY-1/SPY-3 radar??

You probably confused between Mk41 VLS and AEGIS system. Saudi have MK41 (on Avante 2200 class) but no AEGIS.

I wrote it wrong. In my head I wanted to write MIM104D but in my hand I wrote AEGIS.

 

[j_hungary]

I wrote it wrong. In my head I wanted to write MIM104D but in my hand I wrote AEGIS.

But you wrote that US shot down Iranian missile, that's SM-3 from AEGIS system.....

 

[GoMig-21]

Great to see the Zumwalt having its hypersonic strike cells being installed. I got to see the Zumwalt up close as we sailed past it to the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor. It was awesome!

Despite the brutal expenditure to launch the 3 of them out there, I am glad they've found a way to sustain them and make great use of their unprecedented prowess and modularity as well. The project was way too big to fail that there was no way they would discontinue it in the real sense, as in completely close shop and even put them away. The way they've chosen to give them a special role is almost as if that was really their perfect place anyway.

 

[LeGenD]

Sorry if I am blunt but I don't believe them after Iraq's WMDs

US intelligence disclosed that Russia will invade Ukraine before it happened. Did it happen or not?

Iraqi defector(s) told Americans that Iraq continues to develop chemical weapons.

The New York Times recently reported that an Iraqi defector—known under the pseudonym of Ahmed al-Shemri—has provided the West additional intelligence on development activities in Iraq regarding nerve agents, including VX.[1] According to al-Shemri, since 1994, Iraq has devised and produced a solid VX formulation that could be described as a "dusty" agent. The properties of this agent include the ability to adhere and penetrate gaps in chemical-protective garments. Having a high persistency and the capacity to poison through the skin, such a preparation of VX could pose an extreme danger to U.S. troops, as well as complicating decontamination efforts.

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/dusty-agents-iraqi-chemical-weapons/

He had fought a 20-year campaign to convince the US to move against the Iraqi dictator. As the war approached, Chalabi provided a stream of informants to US officials and journalists in an attempt to convince them that Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction — the central plank of the US case for war. He was instrumental in the passage of the Iraqi Liberation Act, which channelled close to $100 million to opposition groups in the late 1990s, principally his political body, the Iraqi National Congress (INC).

Ahmed Chalabi: exile whose reputation waned after return to Iraq

Ahmed Chalabi, who did more than any other Iraqi to encourage the 2003 US invasion of Baghdad, has died aged 71.

www.dawn.com

Hidden caches of chemical weapons were found in Iraq after the invasion:

The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons (Published 2014)

The Pentagon kept silent as munitions left over from Saddam Hussein’s war with Iran found new targets from 2004 to 2011: American and Iraqi troops.

www.nytimes.com

However, this was not a sound rationale to invade Iraq. It was all about dismantling Saddam regime and creating a new government there.

The issue is that informants are not perfect, can be politically motivated, or can be wrong. During the War On Terror campaign across Afghanistan and Pakistan, some informants provided bad information to drone operators and innocent people died consequently.

Just pointing out the facts.

Is this not off-topic discussion by the way?

 

[LeGenD]

Then USA must tango with China ASAP



ASAP
Or the world will know the standard set by AEGIS and Patriot in KSA still maintained by F35s and MACs
showing USA undisputed proficencies in coining cute cute names
FAILED MISERABLY IN KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA .
and likely in many many other countries and regions, such as in the Red Sea where a USA carrier was clobbered by a DIY home made Houthi missile.

And as demonstrated so clearly in KSA the Aegis and Patriot systems defending Saudi a joke as the Aegis and Patriot cannot even detect a few sub Mach cruise missiles not to talk of taking them down. Even to now, no one sure where those came from and who flown them. Despite overlapping coverage of those Patriot and Aegis systems.

The American systems dunno where the slow poke missiles came from and if missiles did not go off with bangs leaving smoke and fire, might not even have existed at all

New sales pitch? US makes the world’s ‘finest’ anti-air systems, but sometimes they just don’t work, Pompeo explains
Saudi air defenses like Patriot & Aegis don’t match their advertised properties, unfit for real combat – Russian Army (MAP)

Mate, you keep repeating bad information. Saudi do not have AEGIS defense system and Saudi patriot systems have shot down a large number of missiles and drones in different situations. Yes, some missiles and drones got through and that refinery was successfully struck but this was due to radar coverage having gaps and shortcomings. But you ignore the bigger picture.

 

[RealNapster]

US intelligence disclosed that Russia will invade Ukraine before it happened. Did it happen or not?

Well USA and NATO stabbed Russia by inviting it's neighbours to join NATO which was clear violation of treaties signed between USSR/Russia and USA/NATO in which western block agreed that NATO will not be expanded. So if you are putting enemy troops on russian border by inviting 20+ countries and their military force on russian border what else do you expect ?

It's like you punch me and then "disclose" that I am going to punch you in the face and when I do so, you start saying see I told you guys. Bad bad russia

 

[RealNapster]

Hidden caches of chemical weapons were found in Iraq after the invasion:

Along with hidden catches of gold and oil