US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

[KingQamaR]

Nope trump is not to blame brother, NATO is to blame. Grew too fat and complacent cashing in on the peace dividends post cold war.

Look at their budget spending and reduction in capabilities. Relying on Daddy USA to bail them out. Question is why should the US do that?

I'm not American but I ask myself this. Trump is not wrong in his remarks about NATO.

Totally justified brother. Americans do have a good argument to crash out Europe not pulling own weight.

 

[j_hungary]

Hazb when fighting like conventional military vs Israel got pounded. Now they resort to asymmetrical warfare and are proving successful because this is their forte. No way they can go up against IDF in conventual warfare.

Similarly IDF is not designed for long range ground combat vs Iran. Ground ops misdirection for complex and protracted aerial campaign.

The problem for IDF and America is that they are actually fighting 2 different wars, but with the same country, Iran.

Talked to a friend of mine who now works in the Pentagon about this war. The issue here is the Israeli, and we have 2 different sets of strategic goals. The Israelis want a war in Iran because they want the Iranians to stay out of the ground operation near Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank, and for them to annex more land. Their entire strategy in Iran is basically just to keep them at arm's length, which can be achieved by air power only, by destroying the Iranian support network, infrastructure, and C&C.

For us, this war is about taking out Iranian nuclear capability, taking out Iranian missile capability, and taking out the regime as a secondary bonus, but we can't do all that with air campaign alone, you can destory the centrifuge or missile design bureau, but unless the overdriving factor behind it was gone as well (ie the regime) they would just rebuild them and have them operational again. Which means the issue we face is, if we are to go and try to achieve what we said as a strategic goal, we need at least a ground-based conventional invasion.

Which means Israel will want to push Hezbollah to fight in a conventional war, ala how we force the Iranians to fight a conventional war with us and systematically destroy their capability, the only way Hezbollah can survive this encounter is to go asymmetrical because if the IDF were to engage in their strategic objective, they would need to do it for a long haul, they can't just do hit and run strike anymore.

For us, depends on the overall war goal, if we are to just go in and take out the nuclear fuel and missile development, which mean leave anything else to the next admin (because it's going to take time to restart, by then Trump will be long gone) to achieve that, we don't need to control the entire Iran, all we need is to hit the Iranian at the site that we think they have the stuff. Which means if Iran doesn't want us to do that, they will have to face up conventionally. There won't be a point for Iran to fight asymmetrically against us, but of course, if what we want to do is to do this "permanently," then we will need to push for regime change, which means we are looking at another Afghanistan.

 

[VCheng]

NATO was already on life support.

As you already said, it is for EU to decide whether to pay up for its own defense and curtail its luxurious social spending, or to remain under the US defense umbrella as glorified protectorates and give up its delusions of grandeur.

It cannot have its cake and eat it too, as they say, as it has become accustomed to since the Cold War ended.

 

[Watandar]

Do you think Trump is to blame for Nato demised so sudden.And ? If Trump wants to withdraw the US from Nato. Does he need permission from congress or can he just withdraw from it .

He needs permission from Congress due to legislation passed during the Biden presidency. But what Trump can do is just sabotage the US presence inside NATO during his term.

On the topic of NATO, frankly Trump is politically ok as most Americans won't really mind getting out of NATO as it is now seen as a burden and no longer an asset since the end of the Cold War.

 

[KingQamaR]

If USA Left nato. The geopolitical implications are bad enough. Europe will tide with others. Nato European countries buys a large amount of military Products from United Stares. This will change. Can American people not be told this European money is going towards US Taxpayers too?

 

[Serendipity]

The USS George HW Bush aircraft carrier strike group is scheduled to leave Norfolk, Virginia, on Tuesday and head to the region, according to two US officials. - Reuters

This would suggest that the engagement still has a going concern status. A little alarming. When there is no clear plan, the risk of escalation for damage control is higher.

 

[Watandar]

If USA Left nato. The geopolitical implications are bad enough. Europe will tide with others. Nato European countries buys a large amount of military Products from United Stares. This will change. Can American people not be told this European money is going towards US Taxpayers too?

You are correct that Europe can take its own direction and Europeans are increasingly funding their own MIC. But so what ? If Europeans were previously buying American weapons, the beneficiaries were the US MIC, its partner lobbies and politicians and Washington DC elites. The common American was getting nothing out of it.

Anyways back to topic.

 

[mythbuster]

NATO is kaput.

NATO is taking moral high grounds , it will fall in line... anyways , NATO's contributions in any previous wars have been mostly symbolic...brunt of the war was always taken up by the American....Iran , bravado aside , is crumbling at the core...it will cave sooner than what people believe.

 

[Ali_Baba]

NATO was already on life support.

It is a good thing if NATO dies now. that way, if/when the USA/China "title" fight for #1 happens, we in Europe don't have to get dragged into the USA's war of choice then because we have no obligation to do so when China starts hitting the USA mainland.

 

[Hokikara]

If we had social media like today during Desert Storm the drama from the left and MSM would be worse than it is now.

With all due respect, who needs drama when you have funerals?

 

[mythbuster]

Not just UAE. If Iran wins, then the entire Middle East will change.

Iran will never be allowed to win , not just America even the regional powers want to see a tamed Iran ..
Sentiments of general public means nothing in this context.

 

[KingQamaR]

It is a good thing if NATO dies now. that way, if/when the USA/China "title" fight for #1 happens, we in Europe don't have to get dragged into the USA's war of choice then because we have no obligation to do so when China starts hitting the USA mainland.

US has a lot of enemies Europe not. With all anti Nato propaganda well it didn’t stop America calling on help in 2001 did it.

 

[Ali_Baba]

If USA Left nato. The geopolitical implications are bad enough. Europe will tide with others. Nato European countries buys a large amount of military Products from United Stares. This will change. Can American people not be told this European money is going towards US Taxpayers too?

It is in the stratgegic long term interest of Europe for NATO to die. We can spend more on local defence, rather than USA weapons and we wont have to get dragged into a USA/China war either.

Russia is not a problem for Europe to take care of as long as Europe steps up and funds its defence slightly better than now. Russia is not an economic power, and it cannot afford a large military either, etc. The Russian threat was always overblown by the US MIC complex, but step back and it is not an issue for Europe to take care of Russia.

 

[VCheng]

Iran will never be allowed to win , not just America even the regional powers want to see a tamed Iran ..
Sentiments of general public means nothing in this context.

Winning is not a matter of permission in war. Both sides will want to win, and both sides will try their best. Let us wait and see how it all ends.

 

[Davey Crockett]

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