Why were Arab armed forces so ineffective?

[mulj]

The conversation between someone from our country with a brigadier
" Can you show us the results of the field tests and manuals, Sir?"
" We don't any"??
" Thats impossible Sir, also you got technology transfer????"
5 minutes later
" Can we see your smelting capacity a bit better? "
" We , don't have "
" What do you mean, we don't have? We passed it by 10 minutes ago"
2 hours later, all the documents and blueprints were photographed by the simple phones
Governments????
No

This anecdote is from when and where exactly?

 

[PakFactor]

Hi,

Son pakistan has---. We exist---even after facing an enemy 5 times larger than us---. That is a victory in itself---.

If Uncle Sam had not saved india in 1965---hindustan would have been in history books by now---.

Read my post; neither side gained the total victory needed; just like the Pakistan side, the Indians, being five times as big with more manpower and resources, were just as incompetent. Just be thankful you have India as a neighbor. Had it been the Israelis, they would have shredded Pakistan even further than just East Pakistan in 1971.

Coming back to showing how operations fail in Asia, Maj Gen. Akhtar Malik, the brainchild of Operation Grand Slam, was replaced by Ayub's love child Yahya Khan mid-way through the plan fell apart. This comes back to my point of Arab and majority Asian Armies appointing their "yes, sir" people so they can up themselves. As for Pakistan, its war efforts were faltering as it was running low on war articles; hence, the UN resolution and joint US and Soviet cease-fire efforts saved both from further humiliation. Let's not forget many books written by Pak officers on the miscalculations were taken off the shelf and heavily edited, and people were fed false narratives of the conflict.

Pakistan and India are akin to two autistic children fighting. In competent hands, you see what the British did with Indian forces versus what Indians did with those legacy forces; same for Pakistan, competency is essential.

There are many great examples of both sides of failures, and I'm sure @Fatman17 and other ex-service members can point them out. A boxer beaten and getting up to sit in his corner isn't victory if he's there to survive several rounds without a knockout of his opponent.

[Now, my criticism of Pakistan doesn't demean the sacrifices of our boys, but criticism should be accepted and studied. I still love Hazart Gen. Syed Asim Munir; he's Pakistan's heartbeat and his heartbeats, and so does mine and every other Pakistani; every man and woman has a gush when we look at him. Gen. Asim Munir Zindabad!]

 

[arjunk]

Hi,

Son pakistan has---. We exist---even after facing an enemy 5 times larger than us---. That is a victory in itself---.

If Uncle Sam had not saved india in 1965---hindustan would have been in history books by now---.

A famous historian once said, Indo Pakistani wars are a battle of which side is least incompetent (mostly applies to Pakistani high command).

That's why Indians are sh!tting bricks at the thought of facing the Chinese - A competent enemy who is not outnumbered 10:1.

 

[muhammed45]

This anecdote is from when and where exactly?

Dear brother mine @mulj

Please keep an eye on him. His location is Britain but claims to be a Bosnian Muslim. He is too interested in touching the religious faultlines among Muslim masses.

That worries me, Brits as a colonial power counts on that. Divide and conquer

Thanks in advance

 

[MMM-E]

Small correction.. Salahudin came from a prominent Arab tribe that had immigrated to Kurdistan when they've disagreed with the Khalif of that time..

SALAHADDIN was Arab-Turk .... ( father was an Arab from Yemen and mother was a Turk -- MELIKE Hatun )

His father had immigrated to Iraq from Yemen
and married the sister of Şihabeddin Mahmud ibn Tokuş el-Harimî, the Harim emir (governor) of the Seljuks


SALAHADDIN and his Uncle SHIRKUH were soldiers in Seljuk Army
And Turkish Atabeg Nureddin Zengi ( the Zengid dynasty ) who ruled the Syrian province of the Seljuk Empire sent Turkish Army to Egypt led by General SHIRKUH and SALAHADDIN

​

 

[UKBengali]

This is pure speculation my friend.. Arab generals get where they are based on merit and experience.. no leader will appoint a general by friendship.. otherwise he knows he is jeopardizing his whole country's security..

Really?

If Saudi is such a powerful state then from whom is it seeking US protection?

It has both a massive US airbase(378th Air Expeditionary Wing) and also wants "security guarantees" from the US as well in any formal recognition of the Zionist entity.

It spends more than the rest of the region combined on its military and so promotion based on merit should mean it is already the regional superpower right?

 

[mulj]

Dear brother mine @mulj

Please keep an eye on him. His location is Britain but claims to be a Bosnian Muslim. He is too interested in touching the religious faultlines among Muslim masses.

That worries me, Brits as a colonial power counts on that. Divide and conquer

Thanks in advance

he is bosnian, has his own opinion with some merit and flaws like any of us, do not want to steer further about that matter.

anyway people ganged up on @ziaulislam but he is spewing some troublesome truths about particular and broader pictures in arab world.

 

[MMM-E]

Arabs were warrior who entered Iran in the east and Spain in the west ( from 750 to 1250s )

Great warrior Turks and our Arab brothers together beat Crusaders


The Abbasid Empire in 850


The political power of the Arab Caliphs was limited with the rise of the Seljuk - Ottoman TURKS who captured Baghdad , Syria in 945 and 1055 and then Cairo in 1517

after the 10th Century , TURKs dominated the Middle East and N.Africa until ww1



Today all Arab Countries have same problem and this is a very important thing that needs to be fixed

-- Without National Defense Industry
-- Arabs have no real ally ...... ( while Israel-USA-Europe are always allies )
-- Paper tiger Armies at the command of Arab monarchies

Arabs armies protect Arab monarchies ... nothing else
for example S.Arabia which has the most modern weapons but no real military tradition

People in S.Arabia dont know even how to use a Rifle ..
on the other hand even all Israeli Women serving in the military and walking everywhere with their Rifles


Another for example
Egypt has the most effective and deep-rooted military tradition in the Arab world.

but Egypt bought only monkey model weapons
-- 200 Egyptian F-16s without AIM-120 BVR Missile and without land attack Cruise Missile
-- Egyptian RAFALE Fighter Jets without METEOR BVR Missile

USA-Europe never sell effective weapons to Egypt .....

Israeli Air Force can eat alive the Egyptian Air Force in BVR combat
and Egypt can not develop even BVR air to air Missile

How can Egypt have an effective armed forces in this situation?

 

[Archie]

Hi,

Son pakistan has---. We exist---even after facing an enemy 5 times larger than us---. That is a victory in itself---.

If Uncle Sam had not saved india in 1965---hindustan would have been in history books by now---.

I believe you can find some old photographs from Lahore that will correct your view point

As far as uncle sam is concerned.

They supported us against China in 1962, not against Pakistan in 1965.

 

[Mehmed Bey]

This anecdote is from when and where exactly?

From Saudi Arabia, about 6 to 7 years ago. This happened to my friend who is artillery engineer and also our countryman

 

[mulj]

From Saudi Arabia, about 6 to 7 years ago. This happened to my friend who is artillery engineer and also our countryman

Not sure if they have metallurgy capabilities for production of proper artillery barrels, BNT has one of the best equipment in the world for transferring metal into barrels, they recently walked around and eyed it again.

 

[Corax]

Yes, I realize that silly British goofiness. But I bet when the word is used in most, if not all published English literature where it has to be officially edited, it's spelled CORRECTLY as in the way it's spelled in Marriam Websters Dictionary.

Furthermore, you can't use that spelling in a different context.

Example:
"defencive" is totally incorrect.
Defensive is correct.
Defencible is also completely incorrect.
Defensible is correct.

Heck even the bloody French spell it "defense."

Besides, is "armoured" some form of loveable metal military vehicle? Mon amour vehicle.

Depends what you mean 'CORRECTLY'. British English would be considered 'correct' given that, you know, the English developed the language English, before it was bastardised by the Americans.

 

[Mehmed Bey]

Not sure if they have metallurgy capabilities for production of proper artillery barrels, BNT has one of the best equipment in the world for transferring metal into barrels, they recently walked around and eyed it again.

It was about the ammo. The facilities were built for them, all the documentation was given , they were not able to restart the production, so they called the cheap option.
To tell you the truth, if you ask some of those engineers about their work over there and their opinion, you will be astonished.
Remember when Saudi airforce bombed Yemen for the first time?
Each pilot got a Bentley as reward, I knew then, that they can't win.
Those are things which any normal army doesn't do.

 

[ziaulislam]

Arabs were warrior who entered Iran in the east and Spain in the west ( from 750 to 1250s )

Great warrior Turks and our Arab brothers together beat Crusaders


The Abbasid Empire in 850
View attachment 39357

The political power of the Arab Caliphs was limited with the rise of the Seljuk - Ottoman TURKS who captured Baghdad , Syria in 945 and 1055 and then Cairo in 1517

after the 10th Century , TURKs dominated the Middle East and N.Africa until ww1



Today all Arab Countries have same problem and this is a very important thing that needs to be fixed

-- Without National Defense Industry
-- Arabs have no real ally ...... ( while Israel-USA-Europe are always allies )
-- Paper tiger Armies at the command of Arab monarchies

Arabs armies protect Arab monarchies ... nothing else
for example S.Arabia which has the most modern weapons but no real military tradition

People in S.Arabia dont know even how to use a Rifle ..
on the other hand even all Israeli Women serving in the military and walking everywhere with their Rifles
View attachment 39358

Another for example
Egypt has the most effective and deep-rooted military tradition in the Arab world.

but Egypt bought only monkey model weapons
-- 200 Egyptian F-16s without AIM-120 BVR Missile and without land attack Cruise Missile
-- Egyptian RAFALE Fighter Jets without METEOR BVR Missile

USA-Europe never sell effective weapons to Egypt .....

Israeli Air Force can eat alive the Egyptian Air Force in BVR combat
and Egypt can not develop even BVR air to air Missile

How can Egypt have an effective armed forces in this situation?

Arabs I believe have two problems
1- they don't believe they are Arab and think they eygptians Saudis and emiratis and yemeni, shia and sunni
2- they don't think PALESTINE is Islamic problem they think religion has nothing to do with Jews trying to built temple and Christian belt supporting them to do so

This is the real problem

 

[ziaulislam]

I wouldn't single out the Arabs. In fact, all Asian nation-states have ineffective armed forces with no modern combat experience beyond fighting enemies who are not well-equipped. This includes countries like Pakistan and India. Even in a conflict between both these countries, neither side has managed to achieve a total victory.

Both pakistan and India have professional militaries, let's not bring them in comparison, albeit flawed to some degree