Will ISRAEL lose Its ‘Numero Uno’ spot as The Most Powerful Air Force In The Middle-East ?

[LeGenD]

Against weak Serbia without Air Force and with outdated AD Systems

go and enter Russian airspace and attack on Moscow
then see what will happen with F-35s

Israel can attack on only weak Syria .... nothing else

Yugoslavia wasn't weak in 1999. It had formidable defenses at the time. You think that USAF struck Yugoslavia with 21st century tech? These type of arguments are lame and they show that you have not studied history properly.

Ukraine have demonstrated the capability to hit Moscow and even Russian military bases. Ukraine have also conducted commando raids deep inside Russia. Wake up, mate.

 

[MMM-E]

Yugoslavia wasn't weak in 1999. It had formidable defenses at the time. You think that USAF struck Yugoslavia with 21st century tech? These type of arguments are lame and they show that you have not studied history properly.

Yugoslavia was so weak

on the other hand USA used top technology including stealth F-117
Still most of countries lack this technology including Russia

 

[MMM-E]

Ukraine have demonstrated the capability to hit Moscow. Wake up.

Iran also hit Israel with Missiles
so what ?

Nobody have demonstrated the capability to hit Russia by Fighter Jets

not X band noise AESA Radars
but S and L land Radars can detect F-35s from 150+ km away including Russian NEBO-M Radar


-- Italian RAT-31DL Radar can detect F-35 from 123 km ... ( estimated )
-- American Boing E-7T AEWC can detect F-35 from 113 km ... ( estimated )

Also Turkish Aselsan ALP-300G S band AESA early warning radar can detect F-35 from long distance to guide 150 km SIPER AD Missile on the F-35

F-35 is not completely invisible

 

[LeGenD]

Yugoslavia was so weak

on the other hand USA used top technology including stealth F-117
Still most of countries lack this technology including Russia

Yugoslavians had created some of the earliest known examples of IMAD involving a network of different Russian-origin radar systems including P-18 operating across I/D/G/H/VHF bands as a collective, back in 1999. P-18 might be old today but it was a state-of-the-art Russian radar system back in 1999 that could be used to detect LO aircraft.

But no country can keep up with R&D and military solutions of NATO on its own. WE cannot blame Yugoslavia for loosing the war. Do you think Russia could do something in its place? Russian security stem from its nuclear power, not from the reasons you have in mind.

Iran also hit Israel with Missiles
so what ?

Nobody have demonstrated the capability to hit Russia by Fighter Jets

You keep changing the goalposts. Do you think that Ukraine has an advanced Air Force? You expecting miracles from MiG-29? Well, VKS has superior jet fighters.

Mate, there is no shame in accepting valid arguments and positions when you see them. You don't have to take my statements personal.

 

[MMM-E]

Mate, there is no shame in accepting valid arguments and positions when you see them. You don't have to take my statements personal.

Reality is F-35 is not completely invisible
not X band noise AESA Radars
but S and L land Radars can detect F-35s from 150+ km away including Russian NEBO-M Radar

-- Italian RAT-31DL Radar can detect F-35 from 123 km ... ( estimated )
-- American Boing E-7T AEWC can detect F-35 from 113 km ... ( estimated )

Also Turkish Aselsan ALP-300G S band AESA early warning radar can detect F-35 from long distance to guide 150 km SIPER AD Missile on the F-35


You tried to portray the F-35s used against weak-outdated Syria as invincible and unhittable.

 

[LeGenD]

Reality is F-35 is not completely invisible
not X band noise AESA Radars
but S and L land Radars can detect F-35s from 150+ km away including Russian NEBO-M Radar

-- Italian RAT-31DL Radar can detect F-35 from 123 km ... ( estimated )
-- American Boing E-7T AEWC can detect F-35 from 113 km ... ( estimated )

Also Turkish Aselsan ALP-300G S band AESA early warning radar can detect F-35 from long distance to guide 150 km SIPER AD Missile on the F-35


You tried to portray the F-35s used against weak-outdated Syria as invincible and unhittable.

F-35 is designed to counter modern-age threats. US (and Israel) used F-35 in Syria because Russia deployed its defenses in Syria to protect Syrian regime. US (and Israel) were not fighting Syrian regime though. US created SDF bloc in Syria to defeat ISIS in Syria while Israel was attacking Iranian shipments to Syrian regime. However, US (and Israel) definitely demonstrated on some occasions that Russian defenses cannot stop them. It is logical to mention these examples to make you aware that F-35 is not a joke, it works.

S-400 is in fact a sophisticated air defense system (one of the best of its kind in the world), but it could not intercept threats like F-35 even when paired with Nebo-M technology in Syria. This is what US (and Israel) have shown in Syria. This is my point.

 

[MMM-E]

F-35 is designed to counter modern-age threats. US (and Israel) used F-35 in Syria because Russia deployed its defenses in Syria to protect Syrian regime. US

Russia protect only its military bases in Syria .... nothing else
And Russia deployed limited capabilities with limited numbers in Syria

Russia never used Russian Air Defense Systems against Israel in Syria

 

[MMM-E]

It is logical to mention these examples to make you aware that F-35 is not a joke, it works.

Nobody says F-35 is a joke
but F-35 is not invincible and unhittable.

 

[MMM-E]

S-400 is in fact a sophisticated air defense system (one of the best of its kind in the world), but it could not intercept threats like F-35 even when paired with Nebo-M technology in Syria. This is what US (and Israel) have shown in Syria. This is my point.

Use F-35s to bomb Moscow
then say about that

Russia is not Syria
and Russia never used S400s against Israel in Syria

also there are several U/VHF , L band Radars in Russian territory to detect F-35 from long distance

 

[eIsQengiz]

Brothers stop being ostentatious, The Russian air force remains at war, and Shabekha bandits loyal to Bashar al-Assad have lost nearly 150,000 dogs arms weapons supplies from Russia using Dardanelles ports in the latest conflict alone, with Turkey’s ceased canal leading to The approach to Supplies was blocked and the Russians had no weapons.

ahhahahahahhh




The dictator of SYRIA's regime will be overthrown in war-torn Syria and bring peace to the country.




SAA, NDF Tigers, and HIZBIES like the foreign invader forces that the majority of Syrians reject the Syrian free revolution defeat, and coincide with the phenomenon of the Islamic Guard Corps being persecuted and suppressed by Arab dictators. Stop talking about scary things, stop dreaming about them. Moscow, like Netanyahu and the Jews, has demonstrated its ability to ruthlessly attack Muslim villages.




Syria is an active war zone against Iranian-backed Axis sectarian militia, but in the FREE ARMY it is still battling Russian defences active Air supporting the Russian-backed Iranian Revolutionary troops and forces loyal to Assad. They are a protective force. Was Assad wrong to win the battle of Idlib? Simps you've always been a huge supporter of him.





The Chinese-backed Muslim Brotherhood military regime has been fighting Free Syrian Army fighters, but Russian-backed militias, the Russian-backed Iranian SAA and forces loyal to Assad continue to actively wage an insurgency.





The Russian regime continued to fight, and the rebels launched low-cost FPV attacks on Khmeimlu Air Base, destroying several Su-35s, but Turkish and Islamist militias repeatedly brought the fighting to Nusairi territory. Shias loyal to Iran are under attack. Ukraine adheres to the approved principles of the HTSA.





At the end of the war, we killed 140,000 bandits and continued to destroy the SAA, but it and Russia were repeatedly attacked. yes we did





Even today, the Turkish Air Force remains deeply involved in the war effort counters YGP PYD.

 

[DF-41]

It is logical to mention these examples to make you aware that F-35 is not a joke, it works.

Nobody says F-35 is a joke
but F-35 is not invincible and unhittable.

But F-35 might well be a lemon even if not a joke.

Even the USA secretary of air admitted less than a third of F35s actually operational

F35 Operational Status of less than 33%​

@RepMattGaetz BREAKING: U.S. Air Force Secretary ADMITS that less than a third of F-35s built by Lockheed Martin are operationally capable!The Pentagon has given too much power to the defense contractors that are bilking American taxpayers. It’s not going to get better unless we demand...

 

[LeGenD]

Use F-35s to bomb Moscow
then say about that

Russia is not Syria
and Russia never used S400s against Israel in Syria

also there are several U/VHF , L band Radars in Russian territory to detect F-35 from long distance

According to a peer-reviewed assessment by Hellenic Air Force Colonel and electronics engineer Konstantinos Zikidis, published by the Journal of Computations & Modelling in 2014, Russia claims the low-frequency arrays leveraged by the Nebo-M can detect the F-117 Nighthawk at a range of 350 kilometers (217 miles) in an environment free from electronic warfare (EW), and potentially as far as 72 kilometers (45 miles) under heavy jamming. This detection range is the basis for many S-400 counter-stealth claims, but it fails to acknowledge the difference between detecting a stealth fighter and targeting one.

THE S-400 MYTH: WHY RUSSIA’S AIR DEFENSE PROWESS IS EXAGGERATED

Russia's S-400 is widely touted as the best air defense system in the world, but is that really true? Let's dive into it.

www.sandboxx.us

Who can hit first? F-35 or S-400? Think about it.

---

Let's have a look at following incidents:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/satellite-images-show-damage-at-damascus-airport-after-israeli-raids/

Israeli F-16 Successfully Jammed Russian-made S-300 SAM of Syrian Army

Israel used powerful SkyShield electronic warfare systems against the Russian S-300 air defense systems and disabled them. Israel's evening attack on Syria demonstrated the uselessness of the S-300 Favorit complexes put into service by the SAA. As it turned out, the Israeli military not...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

In First, Russia’s S-300 Fired 13 Missiles At Israeli F-16I Over Syrian Airspace, All 13 Missiles Failed!

Israeli F-16I fighter jets are fitted with Rafael Skyshield advanced jamming POD that deceived Russian S-400 and S-300 surface-to-air missiles since Russia deployed its missile system in Syria. Russian forces opened fire on Israeli jets with S-300 anti-aircraft missiles at the end of an...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Israeli F-35 Repeatedly Entered Iranian Airspace To Prepare Strikes On Iran’s Nuclear Facilities

Israeli Prime Minister Yair Lapid has threatened Iran with using Israel’s military capabilities to thwart Tehran’s nuclear program. “It is still too early to know if we have indeed succeeded in stopping the nuclear agreement, but Israel is prepared for every threat and every scenario,”...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Israel’s drone strikes destroyed Iran’s 30N6E target engagement radar near Isfahan airport

Satellite imagery seen by The Times of Israel shows damage to a radar system near Iran’s Isfahan airport following reports of an alleged Israeli strike in the area overnight. Umbra synthetic aperture radar imagery acquired 0648Z 19APR2024 showed evidence of damage to the Iranian S-300PMU2...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Dismissing these incidents is not helpful.

 

[MMM-E]

Dismissing these incidents is not helpful.

You dont compare S300s in Syria with S400s in Russia
Even F-16s are enough for S300s in Syria

Russian S400 is a system designed to intercept high altitude targets like Fighter Jets
S-400 is located at sea level in Latakia region of Syria . even Turkish SOM Cruise Missile can hit S400s

SOM Cruise Missile is capable of flying under the radar level at 2.5-3.5 meter above the sea level in the Eastern Mediterranean



S400s needs network centric warfare to work together with U/VHF and L band Radars including NEBO-M and AWACS to detect F-35s from 150+ km away

and via data link to guide-fire Air Defense Missiles from multiple platforms at the same time to hit F-35s

Russia needs networked Air Defense umbrella .... and Russia lack this capabilitiy in Syria and Ukraine

 

[MMM-E]

Who can hit first? F-35 or S-400? Think about it.

I have limited knowledge about Russian Air Defense Umbrella


but I know what about upcoming Turkish Air Force to stop F-35s

Turkiye create AI supported Air Defense Umbrella with multiple Radars and Aselsan HERİKKS Air Defence Early Warning and C4I System that manages the air defence activities on Tactical level

HERİKKS receives air threat information from a variety of radars, produces a recognized air picture in real time and assigns the available air defense weapons to selected targets

4.5 gen Fighter Jets and their X band AESA Radars can detect F-35s from 30-35 km away and game over ......... F-35 easly can beat F-16V , RAFALE , etc in BVR combat

We need KAAN + KIZILEMA stealth Fighter Jets to match with the F-35s


..... Networked Air Defense Systems can stop F-35s.....
TURAF has L and S band early warning Radars with link-16 data link for network centric warfare
-- Italian RAT-31DL Radar can detect F-35 from 123 km ... ( estimated )
-- American AN/FPS-117 Radar can detect F-35 from 120+ km ... ( estimated )
-- American Boing E-7T AEWC can detect F-35 from 113 km ... ( estimated )

Also Turkish Aselsan ALP-300G S band AESA early warning radar can detect F-35 from long distance to guide 150 km SIPER AD Missile on the F-35

HISAR-A/O , GOKDEMIR , SIPER Air Defense Systems

SIPER will be more dangerous than S400
S400 works in stand alone mode

on the other hand
SIPER will work with Air/Land/Naval units for ability to operate in coordination via tactical data-links

 

[LeGenD]

I have limited knowledge about Russian Air Defense Umbrella


but I know what about upcoming Turkish Air Force to stop F-35s

Turkiye create AI supported Air Defense Umbrella with multiple Radars and Aselsan HERİKKS Air Defence Early Warning and C4I System that manages the air defence activities on Tactical level

HERİKKS receives air threat information from a variety of radars, produces a recognized air picture in real time and assigns the available air defense weapons to selected targets
View attachment 47868


4.5 gen Fighter Jets and their X band AESA Radars can detect F-35s from 30-35 km away and game over ......... F-35 easly can beat F-16V , RAFALE , etc in BVR combat

We need KAAN + KIZILEMA stealth Fighter Jets to match with the F-35s


..... Networked Air Defense Systems can stop F-35s.....
TURAF has L and S band early warning Radars with link-16 data link for network centric warfare
-- Italian RAT-31DL Radar can detect F-35 from 123 km ... ( estimated )
-- American AN/FPS-117 Radar can detect F-35 from 120+ km ... ( estimated )
-- American Boing E-7T AEWC can detect F-35 from 113 km ... ( estimated )

Also Turkish Aselsan ALP-300G S band AESA early warning radar can detect F-35 from long distance to guide 150 km SIPER AD Missile on the F-35
View attachment 47869
HISAR-A/O , GOKDEMIR , SIPER Air Defense Systems
View attachment 47870

SIPER will be more dangerous than S400
S400 works in stand alone mode

on the other hand
SIPER will work with Air/Land/Naval units for ability to operate in coordination via tactical data-links

Mate, the US have already developed these systems and using them. Turkey is trying to catch-up in comparison.

I am not sure about those estimated ranges. A Japanese website disclosed rcs data of different aircraft but this information is removed. Even if F-35 can be detected around 100 KM distance, there is no guarantee that a fire solution can be produced for it then and there. F-35 and F-22 - each is equipped with a comprehensive EW suite and its data fusion with onboard AESA radar system is maximized (electronically as well as with programming). Just to highlight the gap in rudimentary terms:

Rafale F3-R feature 3 x RWR antenna in total
MiG-35 feature 4 x RWR antenna in total
F-35A/B/C feature 10 x RWR antenna in total
F-22A feature 30 x RWR antenna in total

So what can be done to overcome it? Now consider the ability of F-35 to detect other aircraft and missiles and defeat them before it can be engaged and shot down. The F-35 won't be operating alone either. You need to understand what the other side can do.

F-22, F-35 Outsmart Test Ranges, AWACS - Breaking Defense

CAPITOL HILL: How smart is too smart? When F-35 Joint Strike Fighters flew simulated combat missions around Eglin Air Force Base in Florida, their pilots couldn’t see the “enemy” radars on their screens. Why? The F-35s’ on-board computers analyzed data from the airplanes’ various sensors...

breakingdefense.com

F-22 was best bet against F-35 in NATO excercises. The outcome of these excercises is not disclosed.

KAAN will be ready for operations in 2030, the end-product may or may not turn out like it is envisioned in documents. However, F-35 will be uplifted to Block 4 standard earlier.

S400s needs network centric warfare to work together with U/VHF and L band Radars including NEBO-M and AWACS to detect F-35s from 150+ km away

and via data link to guide-fire Air Defense Missiles from multiple platforms at the same time to hit F-35s

Russia needs networked Air Defense umbrella .... and Russia lack this capabilitiy in Syria and Ukraine

S-400 system contains a network of several radar systems:

91N6E = S band
92N6E = I/J bands
96L6E = C band (Optional)
59N6 Protivnik GE = L band (Optional)
67N6 Gamma DE = L band (Optional)
1L119 Nebo SVU = VHF band (Optional)

Russian S-400 system in Syria contained a network of several radar systems including 1L119 Nebo SVU to help detect F-22A and F-35 but it could not. The difference between theory and reality.