Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Ak01]

What about the Turk chopper? Gokbey
Still hobgoblined by US engine like ATaK?

i think the engine issue is maybe overstated a bit @Quwa polish uh60's?

I dont like the gobkey only for the fact that we'd need to be there to deal with teething issues, and with such large orders, i dont want us to be on the hook for that. Look at how pathetic the NH90 prog was, i shudder at the thought of buying 200 units and having to deal with issues over and over

 

[puttputt]

What about the Turk chopper? Gokbey
Still hobgoblined by US engine like ATaK?

The first one with indigenous engine was just delivered, but even so, Bell 412M draws on insanely more scale. Also helps that the PAA knows how to also support it via the 412EP.

TAI delivers first domestically built Gokbey helicopter to Turkish army - Türkiye Today

Turkish Aerospace Industries delivered first T625 Gokbey helicopter to Turkish land forces, with 83 total planned across all users

www.turkiyetoday.com

 

[Toxic]

The first one with indigenous engine was just delivered, but even so, Bell 412M draws on insanely more scale. Also helps that the PAA knows how to also support it via the 412EP.

TAI delivers first domestically built Gokbey helicopter to Turkish army - Türkiye Today

Turkish Aerospace Industries delivered first T625 Gokbey helicopter to Turkish land forces, with 83 total planned across all users

www.turkiyetoday.com

On the flipside with such a large order we will certainly be able to get local production of the helicopter.

Still though the 412EP is the better option imo

 

[TOPGUN]

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I like it

 

[Ak01]

On the flipside with such a large order we will certainly be able to get local production of the helicopter.

Still though the 412EP is the better option imo

i dont always think local prod is the play, in cases like this i'd say just buy them off the line for the cost savings and speed.

 

[Oscar]

i think the engine issue is maybe overstated a bit @Quwa polish uh60's?

I dont like the gobkey only for the fact that we'd need to be there to deal with teething issues, and with such large orders, i dont want us to be on the hook for that. Look at how pathetic the NH90 prog was, i shudder at the thought of buying 200 units and having to deal with issues over and over

Well you weren’t very fond of the engines on the Z-10 but they did eventually iron them out and I am interested on what the Turks have done with the engines considering they still have(relatively) more open access to tech.

 

[Oscar]

The first one with indigenous engine was just delivered, but even so, Bell 412M draws on insanely more scale. Also helps that the PAA knows how to also support it via the 412EP.

TAI delivers first domestically built Gokbey helicopter to Turkish army - Türkiye Today

Turkish Aerospace Industries delivered first T625 Gokbey helicopter to Turkish land forces, with 83 total planned across all users

www.turkiyetoday.com

What is the 412EP a better option for?
Specifically which role in the PA?

 

[Ak01]

Well you weren’t very fond of the engines on the Z-10 but they did eventually iron them out and I am interested on what the Turks have done with the engines considering they still have(relatively) more open access to tech.

not me- the PAA wasnt fond of them. They struggled hard in our climate.

Its less about one specific thing, its why i referenced the NH90, i wouldnt feel comfortable with such a critical capability going to a platform that WILL have teething issues, in the same way im not a fan of the J35 buy atm because we'd need to brave the teething there too.

Even the Yuan engines make me somewhat uncomfortable, its all just boiling down to i dont want us to have to brave teething issues on a platform we dont have deep knowledge of or local access to modification/corrections.

If you were suggesting gobkey 5, 6, or 10 years down the line, my opinion would be different because by then TAI will have ironed it out, at which point it would probably be a great alternative

 

[MirageV3ff]

the white ones or something else , would appreciate it if u gave news articles
i wanna read about it

White one most likely

 

[Oscar]

not me- the PAA wasnt fond of them. They struggled hard in our climate.

Its less about one specific thing, its why i referenced the NH90, i wouldnt feel comfortable with such a critical capability going to a platform that WILL have teething issues, in the same way im not a fan of the J35 buy atm because we'd need to brave the teething there too.

Even the Yuan engines make me somewhat uncomfortable, its all just boiling down to i dont want us to have to brave teething issues on a platform we dont have deep knowledge of or local access to modification/corrections.

If you were suggesting gobkey 5, 6, or 10 years down the line, my opinion would be different because by then TAI will have ironed it out, at which point it would probably be a great alternative

Well I did mean “you” as in Pakistan -
considering the issues you braved with JF-17 (although that was a hobsons choice) the risk may seem acceptable.

Because really what is the realistic choice? Would it not be on the cards if it were truly a realistic choice?
Considering the crap with AH-1Z despite the “baniyapan” associated with that purchase it still leaves a ton of “paralysis by analysis” in terms of risk aversion

 

[Reichmarshal]

Changes suggested by PAA have been incorporated in the production model we will see shortly in PAA colors

 

[Malik]

Pakistan's army Z-10ME with new type of MMW Radar

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[Ibbi32]

i just think this is an evaluation unit tbh. Id be very surprised if this is a production batch of just 1 unit... either there is a wait for something new from China in terms of upgrades or the PAA wants to thoroughly evaluate these birds and give proper feedback before deciding on a buy in. OTOH, with a thawing of US/PAK relations... maybe we'll see a release of AH-1Z's. PAA has a HUGE rotary wing requirement, which really nobody other than Europe or the US is well placed to meet. For the sake of ease, ill just reference wikipedia, i dont know numbers off the top of my head, just correct/adjust, but the underlying point stands:


55 cobras
45 pumas
30 ish mix types
some of the older MI171's might need to start seeing the scrapyard too.

So lets just say PAA has a 150 helicopter requirement to replace old types alone...

PN also needs choppers!
30 need replacing
then lets assume another 10 to be deployed for asw duties off of ships.

Thats 40 there.


So basically we're talking 200-230 helicopters if we say all mi171's need to go over a time period.

This is a HUGE number @puttputt

IMO, the best bet would be a mix of US EDA Bell AH-1's with a mix of Bell 412EP's. These could possibly be supported or swapped for some UH60's for MEDEVAC etc, but also MH60R's for ASW. Then supported with a mix of AH-1Z's too from new and upgrade/refurb the old EDA units. This is a deal that US representatives would probably even lobby for tbh.

With this large of a requirement wont it be more economical and future proof to develop production facilities at PAC over the next decade and license produce a couple types from china and potentially europe?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan's army Z-10ME with new type of MMW Radar
View attachment 196589

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Finally a video of the MMW radar on the PAF version! Been waiting a long long while for this to appear.

 

[Be dazzled]