Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Desprado123]

Is this true? @Fatman17

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[F.O.X]

The era of gunships is effectively over. Against a modern and well equipped military like India’s, deploying attack helicopters against armor or infantry would be suicidal they’d likely be the first targets to get eliminated. Their role now is largely limited to low risk operations, such as counterinsurgency missions against TTP or limited engagements in Afghanistan.

The future lies in drones hover, glide, strike. This is where we need to shift our focus. Loitering munitions, autonomous swarms, and long endurance UAVs offer far better survivability, precision, and adaptability on the modern battlefield.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Need 150-200 units 30-40 units for each province
Helicopters are still quite valid , unlike drone they can't be manipulated with signal jammers

Each helicopter with 19 Tube rocket can take out a large number of ground units

Machine gun and hovering ability can wipe out 20-40 troops in few seconds

The drone are just an extension of force , not retiring Helicopter gunship role

 

[Hussain]

There is absolutely no mention of Z-10ME deployed on Chinese Internet. Atleast I haven't seen it. Careful people bubble could burst like that L-15 story.

All these "new hardware" stories have a basis. The relevant force sends out an RFI/RFP, and then short lists a particular platform.

They study, evaluate, and accordingly buy / build / customize etc, what they deem fit.

People get excited that a new platform is on its way in, or here....

Would you agree?

 

[ARMalik]

The era of gunships is effectively over. Against a modern and well equipped military like India’s, deploying attack helicopters against armor or infantry would be suicidal they’d likely be the first targets to get eliminated. Their role now is largely limited to low risk operations, such as counterinsurgency missions against TTP or limited engagements in Afghanistan.

The future lies in drones hover, glide, strike. This is where we need to shift our focus. Loitering munitions, autonomous swarms, and long endurance UAVs offer far better survivability, precision, and adaptability on the modern battlefield.

You are correct to some extent. But these Gunships become extremely powerful if they become part of Military netcentric networks. These are still extremely relavant for special purpose missions.

 

[Fatman17]

All these "new hardware" stories have a basis. The relevant force sends out an RFI/RFP, and then short list a particular platform.

They study, evaluate, and accordingly buy / build / customize etc, what they deem fit.

People get excited that a new platform is on its way in, or here....

Would you agree?

Oh ok. Thanks for the lecture

 

[Hussain]

Each helicopter with 19 Tube rocket can take out a large number of ground units

1. Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System​

2. BAE APKWS
3. Hydra Rockets with APKWS Kits Intercept Fast-Moving Drones
4. Fire Snake 70 - Manufactured by Hubei Jiangshan Honglin Precision Machinery Co. A subsidiary of China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation

The drone are just an extension of force , not retiring Helicopter gunship role

Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T)

STRIX™ Uncrewed Air System​

 

[Hussain]

Oh ok. Thanks for the lecture

You seemed to have missed the last line....

 

[Fatman17]

You seemed to have missed the last line....

I will believe the news when I see the helo in Pakistan army livery

 

[Harbyharb]

The era of gunships is effectively over. Against a modern and well equipped military like India’s, deploying attack helicopters against armor or infantry would be suicidal they’d likely be the first targets to get eliminated. Their role now is largely limited to low risk operations, such as counterinsurgency missions against TTP or limited engagements in Afghanistan.

The future lies in drones hover, glide, strike. This is where we need to shift our focus. Loitering munitions, autonomous swarms, and long endurance UAVs offer far better survivability, precision, and adaptability on the modern battlefield.

That is untrue and a wild over-simplification of attack helicopters’ capabilities, even in the context of the Russo-Ukraine war which offers insights that shouldn’t be taken as scripture for all future engagements to come, as the Ukraine front have unique strategic circumstances that aren’t applicable to the rest of the world.

Helicopter gunships have several distinct drawbacks, since most of the rotor is responsible for both generating lift and maneuvering moments, its mechanical components have limited flight hours between maintenance, on top of having inferior loiter time. As such, low intensity counterinsurgency missions are exactly what you *shouldn’t* use helicopter gunships for - that is a role reserved for platforms that can patrol large swaths of airspace for a long time, such as MALE strike drones.

What helicopter gunships offer, and have always offered, is survivability via flexibility, the flexibility to maintain distance with approach rate ranging from 300km/h to zero to employ substantial amount of ordnance outside the effective retaliation range of adversaries, and the flexibility to use terrain to evade detection and fire. Take the 2023 Zaporizhia Offensive for example, when a concentrated Ukrainian armoured column rapidly approaches the Russian lines -

-FPV drones and loitering munition lacked the stopping power since their low range and low speed limited how many vehicles can engage the enemy column at the time, while multiple FPV drones are usually required to impair singular armoured vehicles

-Attack aircraft like Frogfoots are too large and too fast, which made them more easily detected by enemy AD systems, while any attack run on advancing enemy columns would entail the aircraft venturing beyond the no-man’s land and into enemy controlled airspace where there isn’t sufficient tactical intel of enemy units to ensure survivability

…and in this case, helicopter gunships are the only platforms that offer a combination of 1. Saturated lethality 2. Standoff capability 3. Survivability 4. Time-sensitivity.

Helicopter gunships of the present and the future should be regarded as a mobile platform for stand-off munitions. Z-10ME with advanced sensors, datalink integration with ground units, stand-off munitions like CM-502KG, fits such description.

 

[Hussain]

I will believe the news when I see the helo in Pakistan army livery

Where did I ask to you to believe anything?

 

[Fatman17]

Where did I ask to you to believe anything?

Chill my friend

 

[Be dazzled]

It’s very old. Testing during the first trials.

Yep. Old video likely from the initial trials.

 

[Harbyharb]

The future lies in drones hover, glide, strike. This is where we need to shift our focus. Loitering munitions, autonomous swarms, and long endurance UAVs offer far better survivability, precision, and adaptability on the modern battlefield.

I disagree in particular to the circumstances of the Indo-Pakistan front. Revelations in Ukraine should be viewed cautiously, as it is a peculiar front in that both sides had substantial soviet-era stockpiles and heavy equipments intended to arm group armies now repurposed for brigades or even battalion level engagements, fighting in the donbass where the level of urbanization, thanks to soviet-era infrastructure, is unusually high. It meant that the front is unusually densely populated with platforms like artillery and air defense systems, as well as garrisoned towns and small cities, which made mobile mechanized field warfare with large breakthroughs and encirclements difficult.

This is not the case for the Indo-Pakistan front, where substantially large areas of flood plains are ideal for superior numbers of Indian motorized forces to maneuver and launch concentrated breakthroughs. Indian army also possess a substantial number of, albeit outdated, soviet-era self-propelled AD systems that have proved themselves still competent against most attack drones and loitering munitions in Ukraine. In this sense, where Pakistan lines are stretched thinner, platforms like attack helicopters that can provide time-sensitive saturating firepower over a larger area from its base of operation (compared to loitering munitions and FPV drones), while possessing survivability against most air defense systems that India can field to accompany advancing forces, is critical in deterring Indian maneuver and breakthroughs.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Helicopters have been a issue in Army because between 80's and 2000's we got machinery from 1960 or 70's

So being able to add Proper Gunship ensures this aspect of Military is not overlooked

The Drones give us another option to Supplement the Helicopter fleet