Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Toxic]

I suspect PAF will be moving away from SD-10 no?

Not until the FAAZ becomes a reality we have 800-1000 SD-10s and we won't be purchasing more PL-15s until the J-35 and additional J-10s and JF-17s.

 

[Yasser76]

Not until the FAAZ becomes a reality we have 800-1000 SD-10s and we won't be purchasing more PL-15s until the J-35 and additional J-10s and JF-17s.

Would have thought after 7th May we would be very hungry for more PL-15s

 

[RajaBaja]

Would have thought after 7th May we would be very hungry for more PL-15s

The threads gone so off topic. Why don't you open up a new thread for this discussion?

 

[Windjammer]

Pakistani Z-10ME "stratified tubes." The centrifugal force generated by the rotation of the air throws heavy particles into a separate channel at the end of the pipe and expels them outside the aircraft. This tech makes Z-10ME all terrain and weather capable.

Credit : FJS

 

[Reichmarshal]

I suspect PAF will be moving away from SD-10 no?

Not as long as u have PG, mirage and block 1 in service

 

[rafale]

We’ve been hearing that for several years now regarding the Mirages, there’s only 33~ Mirages in the PAF capable of receiving such a modification, but it hasn’t happened and likely will not happen. Even if it does, without modern countermeasures and limited radar capability it’s a very last resort measure. The Indian MiG-21s are technically BVR capable, doesn’t make them potent.

There’s been so such proof or even credible rumor about the PG receiving such a modification, even if it did, it would not be a viable or safe BVR asset. Limited range (both radar and airplane), limited countermeasures, no-on board EW. Not to mention the fact that the airframes are going to start being dangerous just a few years down the line, much like the F7s became. These platforms are not good for extending the life of like Mirages or F-16s, our experience with the F7P, BDs experience with the F7BGI and Indias experience with the Bison are proof of it. Why would the PAF want to risk pilots like this?

Mirage and F-7s don't need a powerful AESA radar to launch SD-10s....networking capability will allow ground based radars or AWACS to guide the missiles, essentially making F-7s and Mirages just the BVR missile carriers and hence increasing the number of BVR launch platforms.

They are good enough for the Mig29s/Jaguars/Drones of the IAF while J-10/JFs will take over the lead role against MKIs/Rafales.

PAF seriously needs more numbers of aircraft to carry BVR missiles.......

 

[Reichmarshal]

I’m going to stop this discussion here because it’s completely off topic to the thread - but no, this is again just “I know better than you” Fluff with buzzwords like “totality of the situation” and “look at the whole mix” and “everyone makes this mistake but not me with my superior knowledge” Bring credible proof or reasoning for claims.
Either way, I’m not going to respond in this thread.

Their is no mr know it all...some times u know somthing some times others do....no one knows every thing all the time.

 

[Oscar]

Sorry for the delayed replying, ( as have real life n work to contend with )
I am perplexed by though process of some members here.

The whole point of posts on the z10 thread was.
1.Pakistan does not have the financial space to replace its whole legacy fleet be it PAF, PA or the PN in an instant.
2. in such a circumstance it has to make do and utilize its legacy ac/helos to the best of their abilities in conjunction with the state of the art ac/helos it got.
3. The legacy fleet has been kept in ship shape condition, with consistant supply of parts and constant upgrades throughout their service.
4. Legacy fleet for the foreseeable future are not going any where and will serve atleast till the first half of the next decade as far as the cobras r concerned, while the PAF legacy fleet can go on to serve further.

Agreed but there is an extent to which you can define “ship shape”
The AH-1s are mostly operational but they are showing their age in many ways beyond just systems onboard.

They are best suited to being left for the west - but if push comes to shove they will be used in the east as well for roles that suit their vulnerabilities.

Same way PAF F-7s and A-5a stores away for the worst case scenarios

 

[Toxic]

Agreed but there is an extent to which you can define “ship shape”
The AH-1s are mostly operational but they are showing their age in many ways beyond just systems onboard.

They are best suited to being left for the west - but if push comes to shove they will be used in the east as well for roles that suit their vulnerabilities.

Same way PAF F-7s and A-5a stores away for the worst case scenarios

If we ever reach a point where we have to pull A-5s out of storage then we would already be doomed by that point. Also fighter jets are not something that unless kept in some degree of working condition can be just pulled out and be used and I very much doubt PAF is using resources to keep A-5s and F-7s in working condition.

Same thing will happen to the cobra's as they are eventually retired.

 

[Ak01]

Mirage and F-7s don't need a powerful AESA radar to launch SD-10s....networking capability will allow ground based radars or AWACS to guide the missiles, essentially making F-7s and Mirages just the BVR missile carriers and hence increasing the number of BVR launch platforms.

this isnt accurate, explained here why kinda, i will do a part 2/cont soon.

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[studsmart]

Link-17A (Advance) is replacing Link-17

 

[Pak-Warrior]

They are best suited to being left for the west - but if push comes to shove they will be used in the east as well for roles that suit their vulnerabilities.

Same way PAF F-7s and A-5a stores away for the worst case scenarios

I really doubt that any A-5 is still in store. These were retired 15 yrs ago. It was basically based on J-6 (which itself was based on mig-19). Even F-7s which was newer than A-5 can be found ditched, In below photo some 40 F-7s can be seen at Mianwali airbase left in dust. Can find couple here and there in other bases too. So, I don't think PAF will be accommodating much older A-5 in any special storage facilities.

However, there could be some relatively newer F-7s in storage, but I assume there should be some 5-10 yrs max limit for storage as well post retirement. So periodically storage facilities get emptied for newer lot. So in few yrs F-7PGs and mirages might take place of remaining F-7s in storage hangars.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

From 0 to Hussain Haqqani, how true/false is this?

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[Pak-Warrior]

Mirage and F-7s don't need a powerful AESA radar to launch SD-10s....networking capability will allow ground based radars or AWACS to guide the missiles, essentially making F-7s and Mirages just the BVR missile carriers and hence increasing the number of BVR launch platforms.

They are good enough for the Mig29s/Jaguars/Drones of the IAF while J-10/JFs will take over the lead role against MKIs/Rafales.

PAF seriously needs more numbers of aircraft to carry BVR missiles.......

Not happening. There can be many theories or possibilities. But is it happening ? Answer is a straight no. Nobody has NEVER seen a SD-10 with F-7s or mirages. Those birds are going to retire. Period.

Even if these aircrafts have all necessary equipment for that sort of advance network, so what you are suggesting is that in addition to 250 Jeffs, J-10Cs and Vipers we will include all relics for BVR solutions as well. That adds multiple complexities, including the handling of such large volume. Can AWACS guide 300+ aircrafts with their missiles simultaneously? Management of such large network can become an overhead instead of any real benefit.

We airborned only 40 high-tech aircrafts only (4.5 gen) against IAF's 70 in last skirmish. We obviously have lot many jets. But there's a reason why we only used our cutting edge fighters. We wanted optimal results. Our network was efficient and worked perfectly. Even this 40+70 is already called as world's largest modern-day air battle. You can imagine, we still had whole Viper fleet, and 120+ Jeffs at the ground. There's no chance for F-7s to get added into that mix when even far more superior jets were at ground.

BTW, AWACS cannot just do everything on its own. Otherwise why we bought J-10Cs? We could have just bought PL-15s and mount them over ancient F-7s and there you go. So modern fighter jets are essential, as these are front nodes (w.r.t facing the enemy) without AESA / EW suites, Anti-jamming capabilities that is a compromised, insecure node that will be taken out. A lost case.

They are good enough for the Mig29s/Jaguars/Drones of the IAF while J-10/JFs will take over the lead role against MKIs/Rafales.

PAF seriously needs more numbers of aircraft to carry BVR missiles.......

In real time situation you don't get to choose if you want to fight a Jaguar or a Rafale. Any situation can develop in matter of seconds.

BVR missiles stock is also limited and these are also very costly missiles. Airforce has to use them wisely. Plus pilot and aircraft survivability is also a main priority. Its a matter of prestige for PAF as well. PAF won't ever give enemy an easy kill. A fighter jet shot down is a trophy for the enemy.

 

[Oscar]

From 0 to Hussain Haqqani, how true/false is this?

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Maintain - not produce.
You don’t want to ship Z-10s everytime it’s more than a line replacement issue to China.