Danger of US giving Saudis F35s: Golden opportunity for normalization slipping away? - analysis

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Danger of US giving Saudis F35s: Golden opportunity for normalization slipping away? - analysis​

The Trump administration might sell F-35s to Saudi Arabia without Riyadh agreeing to recognise Jerusalem, in a move that could shake up the Middle East.​

A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.
A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.(photo credit: REUTERS/RICARDO ARDUENGO)ByYONAH JEREMY BOBNOVEMBER 5, 2025 18:14Updated: NOVEMBER 6, 2025 10:01
Two data points could signal a geopolitical and security earthquake in the Middle East.

The Pentagon has given a preliminary nod to selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia, and the Trump administration may carry out this deal without conditioning it on normalization between Riyadh and Jerusalem.

How are these two points issues, and why are they potential game-changers?

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Until now, only democracies have been sold the F-35.

Mostly the US, European countries, Japan, and South Korea.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)No country with even a hint of military hostility to Israel or any potential ally of Iran has been sold the aircraft.

When Turkey purchased Russia’s S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, the US kicked them out of the F-35 potential buyers program.

F-35 gave Israel a military edge

The F-35 is the world’s premier aircraft with stealth capabilities that can run circles around most countries’ air defenses.
Most importantly, it allows Israel to run circles around Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Hamas’s air defenses.

It is the largest reason why the Jewish state succeeded at setting back the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program by two years and achieved another unprecedented achievement against the ayatollahs.


It is the tip of the spear for Israel’s maintaining of its “qualitative advantage” over its adversaries, though they far outnumber the Jewish state’s population and surround Israel on several fronts.

The Saudis, in general, are much closer to the US and Europe than to Eastern countries.

They are also part of an unspoken and unofficial Middle East security alliance with Israel and other Sunni countries against Tehran.

But they have also flirted with alliances with Russia and China, and have signed deals with Iran, which, however unlikely, could also have led to alliances.


If Riyadh gets the F-35 and shares the technology with Russia, China, or Iran, Israel’s qualitative edge over Tehran could be compromised, and it could also face other issues with Beijing and Moscow, which currently have a deep respect for Israel’s military.

This came up in 2020 when the US almost sold the F-35 to the UAE at the height of the wave of the Abraham Accords.

At the time, it seemed like the Israeli political echelon was reluctantly not publicly objecting, but top defense officials were very concerned about the move and breathed a sigh of relief when it fell through due to a variety of other issues.


But one of the reasons that Israel was somewhat ready to swallow the UAE receiving the F-35 was that the UAE had crossed the Rubicon and normalized ties with Jerusalem.

In other words, Israel got a major strategic win, and so it was willing to keep its mouth shut about a potential strategic problem.

Further, the very fact that the UAE normalized relations with Israel in some ways made it less likely, though not impossible, that it would pass on the sensitive F-35 technology to Israeli adversaries.

Here, the Trump administration may finalize the sale to the Saudis without any commitment to normalization.


Israeli supporters would hope that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will find the perfect mix of negotiations in which his ending the war and giving Sunni Arab countries a major hand in Gaza will help get Trump to insist on Jerusalem-Riyadh normalization as part of the price for the F-35 deal, if such a deal happens.

This had always been the expectation before October 7.

But Netanyahu has become even more resistant to any concessions toward the Palestinians, even those in the West Bank not involved in the invasion, following the war, and the Saudis are as adamant as ever that they cannot normalize and be seen as deserting the Palestinians completely.

This is why, with no deal yet on how the Saudis, the UAE, Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, former British prime minister Tony Blair, and others will eventually manage Gaza, and at the same time, with news of the Pentagon moving forward on an F-35 deal with the Saudis, Israeli defense observers would be very concerned.

The next steps on the F-35 issue and Saudi normalization will be pivotal.

Giving the F-35 to the Saudis could create serious risks to Israeli security in the future.

But giving the F-35 to Riyadh with Israel missing its chance at normalization, or at least losing the issue as leverage, would be far worse.

Israel could augment its qualitative military superiority for air-to-air battle by acquiring the US-made F-22 fighter jet, and it could try to get into the bidding for the F-47, which is due to start replacing the F-22 sometime in 2028.

There was a moment in 2020 when the US was considering selling the F-35 to the UAE, where it considered selling the F-22 to Israel as compensation, but the idea never advanced further.

This idea could be explored again if the Saudis do acquire the F-35, but it would still be a poor substitute for achieving normalization or for keeping Israel as the only Middle Eastern country with fifth-generation aircraft.
 
The Jewish/Israeli delusion seems to have no end in sight. For how long will approximately 350 million Americans (3.5 million Arab-Americans included) be hijacked by around 7 million Jewish-Americans?

For how long will US foreign policy in the region be controlled/heavily influenced by tiny Israel?

Will the US perpetually, to its own great harm, prefer the interests of tiny Israel over that of not only KSA but 500 million Arabs and 20 + Arab states (Arab World) which by 2050 will have a population approaching 800 million and have the combined 4th largest economy in the world if one country? The GCC alone is the world's 8th largest economy today with the by far largest sovereign wealth funds (4-5 trillion USD) in the world and more funds/money to spend than most. Up there with USA and China.

Yet tiny Israel, 108 times smaller than KSA, seems to have/want to have/decide how the region will be shaped.

KSA-US relations/alliance/friendship predates the "birth" of Israel as a country.

Look, I have nothing against non-hostile Jews, in particular the real Jews (Arab Jews) which are our people but it is disturbing how much of a say they have in the US/West and even the likes of Russia.

If Israel ever attacks KSA for the first time in 3000 years of recorded Jewish history - usually they were on the receiving end of us and we used to rule them for centuries/millennia, they should know that KSA is not like the other countries in the region they have attacked.

Anyway many of the most famous so-called "Jewish" leaders such as Herod the Great were in fact Arabians ethnically.

"Herod was born around 72 BCE<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#cite_note-12"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#cite_note-FOOTNOTESteinmann2011219–256-13"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a> in Idumea, south of Judea. He was the second son of Antipater the Idumaean, a high-ranking official under ethnarch Hyrcanus II, and Cypros, a Nabatean Arab princess from Petra, in present-day Jordan. Herod's father was by descent an Edomite; his ancestors had been forcibly converted to Judaism."


Even Jewish-controlled Wikipedia confirms this.

Nabateans = ancient Hejazis. (used to rule all of Levant btw leaving the most World UNESCO Heritage sites spanning from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine/Israel, Jordan, KSA, Iraq)

Edomites = ancient Northern Arabians.

The real Jews (ancient ones) are just an ancient branch (one out of many) of ancient Arabs/Semites. All the so-called "Jewish" Prophets were that. Their so-called father, Prophet Ibrahim (AS) was born in Northern Arabia (modern-day Iraq) and was an ancient Arab/Semite.

Jews have a history of claiming/taking ownership of Arab people, civilization.

In fact the so-called European "Jews" could barely speak Hebrew so they needed Arab Jews to revive Hebrew (their supposed language) and ancient Jewish traditions. Hard to take seriously.

LOL......selling F-22s to Israel is not going to happen. Not without negatively impacting USAF squadrons.
I hope that the Jewish-American lobby will not try to blockade/destroy this deal with KSA to the detriment of the USA itself.

Lokchead Martin CEO speaking about KSA and the regional headquarter that they have set up in KSA:

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So it seems that the Jewish lobby (hopefully) could be sidelined.
 
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The Jewish/Israeli delusion seems to have no end in sight. For how long will approximately 350 million Americans (3.5 million Arab-Americans included) be hijacked by around 7 million Jewish-Americans?

For how long will US foreign policy in the region be controlled/heavily influenced by tiny Israel?

Will the US perpetually, to its own great harm, prefer the interests of tiny Israel over that of not only KSA but 500 million Arabs and 20 + Arab states (Arab World) which by 2050 will have a population approaching 800 million and have the combined 4th largest economy in the world if one country? The GCC alone is the world's 8th largest economy today which the by far largest sovereign wealth funds (4-5 trillion USD) in the world and more funds/money to spend than most. Up there with USA and China.

Yet tiny Israel, 108 times smaller than KSA, seems to have/want to have/decide how the region will be shaped.

KSA-US relations/alliance/friendship predates the "birth" of Israel as a country.

Look, I have nothing against non-hostile Jews, in particular the real Jews (Arab Jews) which are our people but it is disturbing how much of a say they have in the US/West and even the likes of Russia.

If Israel ever attacks KSA for the first time in 3000 years of recorded Jewish history - usually they were on the receiving end of us and we used to rule them for centuries/millennia, they should know that KSA is not like the other countries in the region they have attacked.

Anyway many of the most famous so-called "Jewish" leaders such as Herod the Great were in fact Arabians ethnically.

"Herod was born around 72 BCE<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#cite_note-12"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#cite_note-FOOTNOTESteinmann2011219–256-13"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a> in Idumea, south of Judea. He was the second son of Antipater the Idumaean, a high-ranking official under ethnarch Hyrcanus II, and Cypros, a Nabatean Arab princess from Petra, in present-day Jordan. Herod's father was by descent an Edomite; his ancestors had been forcibly converted to Judaism."


Even Jewish-controlled Wikipedia confirms this.

Nabateans = ancient Hejazis. (used to rule all of Levant btw leaving the most World UNESCO Heritage sites spanning from Syria, Lebanon, Palestine/Israel, Jordan, KSA, Iraq)

Edomites = ancient Northern Arabians.

The real Jews (ancient ones) are just an ancient branch (one out of many) of ancient Arabs/Semites. All the so-called "Jewish" Prophets were that. Their so-called father, Prophet Ibrahim (AS) was born in Northern Arabia (modern-day Iraq) and was an ancient Arab/Semite.

Jews have a history of claiming/taking ownership of Arab people, civilization.

In fact the so-called European "Jews" could barely speak Hebrew or read the Torah, they needed Arab Jews to revive Hebrew (their language) and ancient Jewish traditions. Hard to take seriously.


I hope that the Jewish-American lobby will not try to blockade/destroy this deal with KSA to the detriment of the US itself.

Lokchead Martin CEO speaking about KSA and the regional headquarter that they have set up in KSA:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


So it seems that the Jewish lobby (hopefully) could be sidelined.

you will be able to buy chineese or turkey 5 jn witch is the same level of f 35
 
you will be able to buy chineese or turkey 5 jn witch is the same level of f 35
Turkey does not have any 5th generation fighter jet. Anyway KSA is already helping finance the KAAN project and other Turkish military projects, along with other GCC member states.

Could, would, should is irrelevant here anyway.

The point is that it is none of Israel's business how KSA and the USA are conducting their mutual ties. I wrote it already but KSA-USA relations/friendship/alliance predates the "birth" of Israel as a country. KSA and USA were already allies/friends/partners when there was no Israel.

KSA military has been heavily interconnected with US military. To now suddenly use Chinese fighter jets (yet proven in battle) would need many years of training, new infrastructure etc. Not worth it when on paper F-35 is the best option out there.

Our strategic military ties with China are mostly related to our ballistic missile force (Royal Saudi Arabian Strategic Missile Force), drones etc.

Our Air Force is made up of American and British fighter jets. Hopefully we will face out the Typhoons and Tornado fighter jets (UK) which is also the plan.

Our largest diaspora in the West is located in the US as well and there are great people to people ties with millions of Saudi Arabians studying/living in the US since the 1970's, myself included.

The problem was never the American people or the US as a country but their Jewish/Zionist controlled foreign policy in the Arab world which was/is a huge detriment for US interests itself. This should change, hopefully it will eventually, American people are waking up to the harmful Zionist influence in their foreign policy, in particular after the Gaza genocide, and once that happens, we will be even closer allies and Israel will finally learn about its real size, power and purpose in the region. We are 1 single strong US president (that can deal with AIPAC and the Jewish lobby) away from that happening. I strongly believe that it will occur in a few decades, at the most, mainly due to the demographical change in the US itself. It is just a question of when, not if, so enjoy your impunity while it lasts.
 
Turkey does not have any 5th generation fighter jet. Anyway KSA is already helping finance the KAAN project and other Turkish military projects, along with other GCC member states.

Could, would, should is irrelevant here anyway.

The point is that it is none of Israel's business how KSA and the USA are conducting their mutual ties. I wrote it already but KSA-USA relations/friendship/alliance predates the "birth" of Israel as a country. KSA and USA were already allies/friends/partners when there was no Israel.

KSA military has been heavily interconnected with US military. To now suddenly use Chinese fighter jets (yet proven in battle) would need many years of training, new infrastructure etc. Not worth it when on paper F-35 is the best option out there.

Our strategic military ties with China are mostly related to our ballistic missile force (Royal Saudi Arabian Strategic Missile Force), drones etc.

Our Air Force is made up of American and British fighter jets. Hopefully we will face out the Typhoons and Tornado fighter jets (UK) which is also the plan.

Our largest diaspora in the West is located in the US as well and there are great people to people ties with millions of Saudi Arabians studying/living in the US since the 1970's, myself included.

The problem was never the American people or the US as a country but their Jewish/Zionist controlled foreign policy in the Arab world which was/is a huge detriment for US interests itself. This should change, hopefully it will eventually, American people are waking up to the harmful Zionist influence in their foreign policy, in particular after the Gaza genocide, and once that happens, we will be even closer allies and Israel will finally learn about its real size, power and purpose in the region. We are 1 single strong US president (that can deal with AIPAC and the Jewish lobby) away from that happening. I strongly believe that it will occur in a few decades, at the most, mainly due to the demographical change in the US itself. It is just a question of when, not if, so enjoy your impunity while it lasts.
turkey will have stealth fighter in few years
 
turkey will have stealth fighter in few years
What has that to do with anything that I wrote in this thread or the topic of this thread, which you yourself created?

As for your statement, that is not a fact yet as of this moment in time. The indigenous Turkish engine is 7-10 years away. By that time there will be 6th generation fighter jets (most likely) and numerous other options out there. No idea how far KSA itself (engine work) will have come. But as I wrote, KSA is already investing in KAAN and helping Turkey out financially in many of their military projects.

No point to be made. Article suggested sales of the F-22 to Israel. It's not going to happen.
What is your take of what I wrote in this thread?
 
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What has that to do with anything that I wrote in this thread or the topic of this thread, which you yourself created?

As for your statement, that is not a fact yet as of this moment in time. The indigenous Turkish engine is 7-10 years away. By that time there will be 6th generation fighter jets (most likely) and numerous other options out there. No idea how far KSA itself (engine work) will have come. But as I wrote, KSA is already investing in KAAN and helping Turkey out financially in many of their military projects.


What is your take of what I wrote in this thread?
Little busy at the moment so I may be delayed getting a response back to you if that's acceptable?
 

Danger of US giving Saudis F35s: Golden opportunity for normalization slipping away? - analysis​

The Trump administration might sell F-35s to Saudi Arabia without Riyadh agreeing to recognise Jerusalem, in a move that could shake up the Middle East.​

A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.
A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.(photo credit: REUTERS/RICARDO ARDUENGO)ByYONAH JEREMY BOBNOVEMBER 5, 2025 18:14Updated: NOVEMBER 6, 2025 10:01
Two data points could signal a geopolitical and security earthquake in the Middle East.

The Pentagon has given a preliminary nod to selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia, and the Trump administration may carry out this deal without conditioning it on normalization between Riyadh and Jerusalem.

How are these two points issues, and why are they potential game-changers?

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Until now, only democracies have been sold the F-35.

Mostly the US, European countries, Japan, and South Korea.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)No country with even a hint of military hostility to Israel or any potential ally of Iran has been sold the aircraft.

When Turkey purchased Russia’s S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, the US kicked them out of the F-35 potential buyers program.

F-35 gave Israel a military edge

The F-35 is the world’s premier aircraft with stealth capabilities that can run circles around most countries’ air defenses.
Most importantly, it allows Israel to run circles around Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Hamas’s air defenses.

It is the largest reason why the Jewish state succeeded at setting back the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program by two years and achieved another unprecedented achievement against the ayatollahs.


It is the tip of the spear for Israel’s maintaining of its “qualitative advantage” over its adversaries, though they far outnumber the Jewish state’s population and surround Israel on several fronts.

The Saudis, in general, are much closer to the US and Europe than to Eastern countries.

They are also part of an unspoken and unofficial Middle East security alliance with Israel and other Sunni countries against Tehran.

But they have also flirted with alliances with Russia and China, and have signed deals with Iran, which, however unlikely, could also have led to alliances.


If Riyadh gets the F-35 and shares the technology with Russia, China, or Iran, Israel’s qualitative edge over Tehran could be compromised, and it could also face other issues with Beijing and Moscow, which currently have a deep respect for Israel’s military.

This came up in 2020 when the US almost sold the F-35 to the UAE at the height of the wave of the Abraham Accords.

At the time, it seemed like the Israeli political echelon was reluctantly not publicly objecting, but top defense officials were very concerned about the move and breathed a sigh of relief when it fell through due to a variety of other issues.


But one of the reasons that Israel was somewhat ready to swallow the UAE receiving the F-35 was that the UAE had crossed the Rubicon and normalized ties with Jerusalem.

In other words, Israel got a major strategic win, and so it was willing to keep its mouth shut about a potential strategic problem.

Further, the very fact that the UAE normalized relations with Israel in some ways made it less likely, though not impossible, that it would pass on the sensitive F-35 technology to Israeli adversaries.

Here, the Trump administration may finalize the sale to the Saudis without any commitment to normalization.


Israeli supporters would hope that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will find the perfect mix of negotiations in which his ending the war and giving Sunni Arab countries a major hand in Gaza will help get Trump to insist on Jerusalem-Riyadh normalization as part of the price for the F-35 deal, if such a deal happens.

This had always been the expectation before October 7.

But Netanyahu has become even more resistant to any concessions toward the Palestinians, even those in the West Bank not involved in the invasion, following the war, and the Saudis are as adamant as ever that they cannot normalize and be seen as deserting the Palestinians completely.

This is why, with no deal yet on how the Saudis, the UAE, Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, former British prime minister Tony Blair, and others will eventually manage Gaza, and at the same time, with news of the Pentagon moving forward on an F-35 deal with the Saudis, Israeli defense observers would be very concerned.

The next steps on the F-35 issue and Saudi normalization will be pivotal.

Giving the F-35 to the Saudis could create serious risks to Israeli security in the future.

But giving the F-35 to Riyadh with Israel missing its chance at normalization, or at least losing the issue as leverage, would be far worse.

Israel could augment its qualitative military superiority for air-to-air battle by acquiring the US-made F-22 fighter jet, and it could try to get into the bidding for the F-47, which is due to start replacing the F-22 sometime in 2028.

There was a moment in 2020 when the US was considering selling the F-35 to the UAE, where it considered selling the F-22 to Israel as compensation, but the idea never advanced further.

This idea could be explored again if the Saudis do acquire the F-35, but it would still be a poor substitute for achieving normalization or for keeping Israel as the only Middle Eastern country with fifth-generation aircraft.
Saudia arabia getting f-35s wouldn't change much because America would never allow them to use it against Isreal
 
i doubt if KSA would even end up getting the F35s........maybe degraded ones but not the real stuff and definitely not without secret kill switches.
Specially when the only issue in the region is israel.....

i don't see any muslim country being offered or given that. They;ll take the money and then stall it or make some bs excuse not to deliver......wont surprise me at all.
KSA wasting its money as usual
 
LOL......selling F-22s to Israel is not going to happen. Not without negatively impacting USAF squadrons.
Total 122 were made , only US can afford ...means if provide F22 to Israel then extra burden of maintenance also on US shoulders.
Why Israel is worried, those F35 will be toothless anyway, just like F15 fleet.
 
US will sell them with their own pilots paid $ 500k monthly… lol
 
Saudia arabia getting f-35s wouldn't change much because America would never allow them to use it against Isreal
Try to read my post number 4 in this thread. Jews/Israel has never once attacked KSA in recorded Jewish history. KSA went to war with Israel in 1948 and 1973. No Western supplied weapons were "not allowed" to be used against Israel or malfunctioned or anything else.

A troll post of no value.

i doubt if KSA would even end up getting the F35s........maybe degraded ones but not the real stuff and definitely not without secret kill switches.
Specially when the only issue in the region is israel.....

i don't see any muslim country being offered or given that. They;ll take the money and then stall it or make some bs excuse not to deliver......wont surprise me at all.
KSA wasting its money as usual
That is your baseless claim. That is yet to be seen.

Just like how KSA would never get the Patriots, THAAD, AWACS, F-15 etc.

"KSA wasting its money as usual" by having one of the largest economies in the world, the fastest growing in the G-20, one of the largest sovereign wealth funds exceeding 1 trillion USD, highest industrial growth rate in the world (tourism too) and home to the largest infrastructure projects in the world alongside China?

Some of the highest living standards in the world etc. No taxation, free education and healthcare etc. The horror!

I suggest taking a look at this thread:



Total 122 were made , only US can afford ...means if provide F22 to Israel then extra burden of maintenance also on US shoulders.
Why Israel is worried, those F35 will be toothless anyway, just like F15 fleet.
Another troll post. The F15-SA is toothless? One of the most advanced versions of the F-15 in the world with only Israel (for obvious reasons) having better fighter jets currently in the region.

OK. What would you call Pakistan's fighter jets then?

US will sell them with their own pilots paid $ 500k monthly… lol
Another genius post.

KSA had an Air Force long before Pakistan was even a country. There have been no foreign pilots in the KSA Air Force since the 1940/50's which were only trainees like with every Air Force in those days. It was never allowed by law for foreigners to even join the KSA military as ordinary foot soldiers let alone pilots!

KSA fighter pilots were training with Italy's (under Mussolini) counterparts when the British were still ruling what is modern-day Pakistan.

"The Saudi pilots training in Italy 1935"—a scene from 'Our Eagles', one of four video wall shows made for the Royal Saudi Air Force Museum.


Little busy at the moment so I may be delayed getting a response back to you if that's acceptable?
Looking forward to an actual American opinion and not the inferiority ridden troll posts of late. It is between KSA, USA and Israel anyway so others do not matter in this topic.
 
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