"It Is Ours Too": Pakistan Brings Back Sanskrit, Plans Gita, Mahabharata Studies

I have to agree and disagree with some of your points here. DNA evidence shows us that the steppe input (Aryan) in South Asia peaks in Afghanistan/Western Pakistan and then gradually tapers off the further eastwards and southwards you move.

Ancient ancestral South Indian (the mixture of the indigenous South Asian population with neolithic farmers from further west) meanwhile peaks in South and East India. In Pakistan meanwhile this heritage forms only 10-40% of the total DNA makeup suggesting that the genetic impact of the Aryans was most widely felt in Pakistan/Afghanistan + parts of NW India (especially their Brahmin class)

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I do however agree with you on the matter of Hindu nationalists being concerned about increased interest for ancient regional history in Pakistan, as they today have a monopoly on its instruction and modern interpretation.

Pakistani nationalism due to the nature in which it came into existence has ceeded the pre-medieval historical phases of regional history to Hindu nationalists. This in turn has allowed them to bastardize our history for their own benefit.

The history of the Indus in many ways is unique to the experience of Aryan migration compared to the Gangetic plains as strict ethnic and racial dogma did not seem to impact the Indus culture in the same way that it did in the Ganges. This can be most clearly be shown by the lax attitude of locals towards the developing caste system. We know from Buddhist scriptures (Majjhima Nikaya) that the Buddha said to a Brahmin:


The key here is Kamboja which in this time period roughly relates to N Punjab+ KPK. We know that a large part if not majority of Sindh and lower Punjabs population at the time of Bin Qasims invasion was Buddhist. Buddhism peaked and survived in areas of South Asia where the caste system was least rigid.

There are many aspects of our ancient history whose presence we can still feel to this day. When Pakistan ranks as one of the least racist countries in the world and we witness travel vloggers from all kinds of backgrounds witnessing the hospitality of Pakistani culture, we need to remember that our ancient ancestors seemingly developed a culture that had some clear differences from the culture that developed in the Gangetic plains. Since we have ceeded ancient history to the Hindu nationalsits however, we are not able to make convincing arguments otherwise.
Great post, and I agree that the aryans/vedics were actually successful in their quest. They did impose themselves upon Pakistan moreso than upon the lands east of the Indus. Harappan remnants lost out decisively to vedic influence. Also, please note that it is not necessarily something for any of us to lose sleep over - the vedic overrunning was simply part of this nation's historical journey.

Pakistanis are altogether more circumspect regarding historical influences than Hindustanis, hence the mental gymnastics Hindustanis have to engage in to forgive one migrant for "non-native influence" but curse any other (vedics good but the rest of them bad!).

We are not actually in disagreement.

My intention is to highlight the disingenuous and hypocritical ancestor worship of modern Hindustanis for a group of migrants who rode into the subcontinent from the coastline of the Black Sea.

The genetic conversation/mapping is more complex as AASI, ASI and ANI are more relevant descriptors of "population proxies" in south Asia, perhaps better elaborated on in a separate thread.
 
The establishment should order the Tablighi Jamaat to start converting Hindus and Chinese to Islam and end the practice of preaching to Muslims only. We have a rational and dominant religion and in the past also it spread in a strategic combination of force and Dawah. Ahmed Shah Abdali and others strongly supported the Sufis in their efforts to spread Islam.
 
There are South Indian languages without even a proper script say Kodavas a major martial community in South who disproportionately join military I don't think anyone understands Kodava language not even AI. Nobody uses Sanskrit in military communication it looks like Hindi and a lot of Urdu words are from Sanskrit.
Koi na koi expat miliaye ga jo sikhaday ga
 
Your post is misleading. Shudh Hindi is derived from Sanskrit, deliberately to extricate modern common utility Hindi from any non-Sanskrit linguistic association.

Pakistanis who used to be perfectly able to understand Hindi now struggle with the sanskritised elements.

It is entirely to our benefit if we can enhance our knowledge of your latest secret aryan code.
Why not? Sanskrit itself is a shudh language. Fixing grammar, adding words and making it more crisp. It's not spoken.

Unless Pakistanis are watching DD news or Reading Indian govt notification on a regular basis, average spoken Hindi is more like Hindustani I'm not saying exactly the same but a mix of Urdu and Hindi. So Indian Urdu speakers are not finding it hard given we still have the largest native speakers of Urdu but somehow you're finding it hard to learn it.
 
Why not? Sanskrit itself is a shudh language. Fixing grammar, adding words and making it more crisp. It's not spoken.

Unless Pakistanis are watching DD news or Reading Indian govt notification on a regular basis, average spoken Hindi is more like Hindustani I'm not saying exactly the same but a mix of Urdu and Hindi. So Indian Urdu speakers are not finding it hard given we still have the largest native speakers of Urdu but somehow you're finding it hard to learn it.
I would imagine that it will become easier and more tolerable with time. At first encounter though, the abrasive mix of sanskritised and hindustani hindi types has a strangely acerbic and discombobulating effect when listened to (I recall involuntarily balking at Col Sophia's every second sentence back in May). It isn't just about understanding the words but also about becoming accustomed to the way the words are uttered.

In any event, studying the precursor Sanskrit tongue will only benefit Pakistan in the long run.

Don't worry yourself too much though over what ancient languages Pakistanis develop expertise in. We may even keep this particular ancient relic alive for posterity after you lot are long gone.
 
A very good step. Muslims remained distanced in India but Possibly one great work on Hind was done by Al-Biruni.

تحقيق ما للهند من مقولة مقبولة في العقل أو مرذولة
(Taḥqīq mā li-l-hind min maqūla maqbūla fī l-ʿaql aw mardhūla)

"A Critical Study of Indian Doctrines, Whether Rationally Acceptable or Rejected". Commonly called Kitabul Hind or Book on India.
He even lived in temples as Hindu and observed the religion and practices.
No time to read that massiv now.
Study Sanskrit is a good academic step from LUMS.
 
Nah you seemed to have mistaken us for our western neighbor. No worries westerners can hardly differentiate.
Really?

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Really?

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I am not in a denial mode and clearly we need to improve a lot on sanitation which lots of rural India still don't have access to. But it's nowhere even bloody close to 700 million figure. Had it been true India's polio eradication success would have been a distant dream. And wouldn't have worried much about covid as most of us would have been dying of cholera and dysentery and unless you believe Indians have immune cells made up of titanium we wouldn't be having highest population in the world.
 
Nah you seemed to have mistaken us for our western neighbor. No worries westerners can hardly differentiate.
Your assertion that Pakistanis and Indians are routinely mistaken for one another is flawed and patently incorrect, except among those westerners who are perhaps uneducated.

The Persian and Greek scholars knew about differences between the different tribes thousands of years ago. Those differences have persisted throughout history under various guises and manifestations. Some have been willing to become civilised and organised, while others have not.

Indeed, Herodotus wrote specifically on the distinct differences between the different ancient tribes of the Indian subcontinent (post the collapse of the IVC and the arrival of the Aryans).

Those who lay in the Indus Valley and to its west (I.e. modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan) were variably described as war like, gold miners, and the most financially productive satrapies of the Achaemenid empire.

Those who lay further to the east were known for the following observations in Herodotus' works:

"Other Indians, to the east of these, are nomads and eat raw flesh. They are called Padaians (Padaioi). It is said to be their custom that, when anyone of them (whether man or woman) is sick, a man’s closest friends kill him saying that he will be lost to them as meat if he is wasted by disease. Though he denies that he is sick, they will not believe him, but kill and eat him. (2) When a woman is sick, she is put to death (like the men) by the women who are her close acquaintances. They sacrifice anyone who reaches old age and feast on his flesh. But not many of them reach old age, for the Padaians kill everyone who gets sick before that time."

"Other Indians have the following different custom: they neither kill anything that has life, nor sow anything, nor are they wont to have houses, but they live upon herbs, and they have a grain the size of millet in a pod, which springs spontaneously from the earth. This they gather, and boil it and eat it with the pod. When any one of them falls into any disorder, he goes and lies down in the desert, and no one takes any thought about him, whether dead or sick [Herodotus is probably talking here about Brahmins, ancient Hindu ascetics, who were strict vegetarians]."

"These Indians whom I have described have intercourse openly like cattle. They are all black-skinned, like the Ethiopians. (2) Their semen too, which they ejaculate into the women, is not white like other men’s, but black like their skin and resembles in this respect that of the Ethiopians. These Indians dwell far away from the Persians southwards, and were not subjects of king Darius."


 
Thats a good way to undertand them and if necessary to counter them
Studying Sanskrit in order to understand and counter present day India is about as useful as studying Latin to understand present day Italy. In India's last census, less than 25 thousand people listed Sanskrit as their mother tongue, and even they probably gave that response only because they considered Sanskrit to be more prestigious than their true mother tongue.
 
Studying Sanskrit in order to understand and counter present day India is about as useful as studying Latin to understand present day Italy. In India's last census, less than 25 thousand people listed Sanskrit as their mother tongue, and even they probably gave that response only because they considered Sanskrit to be more prestigious than their true mother tongue.

Would love to see many Pakistanis speaking fluent Sanskrit, would feel like a cultural win for India...
 
Would love to see many Pakistanis speaking fluent Sanskrit, would feel like a cultural win for India...
It is best left to academic scholars. Unfortunately, the level of ultra-nationalism and jingoism is so high in both countries that any news story is seen as an arena to score points and go one up on the other.

This development has absolutely no material impact on almost 100% of the people in either country, yet internet warriors from both sides will spend countless hours fighting over it.
 
Herodotus wrote specifically on the distinct differences
Herodotus wrote about Ants the size of foxes that dig Gold and people eating other human after their death and eating raw fish. You really want to rely on the guy who called you cannibals? His stories were fantasies and the guy never visited India.
 
In any event, studying the precursor Sanskrit tongue will only benefit Pakistan in the long run.

Don't worry yourself too much though over what ancient languages Pakistanis develop expertise in. We may even keep this particular ancient relic alive for posterity after you lot are long gone.
Germans learnt Sanskrit centuries back and started we wuzzing as Aryans. Let's see how this one goes.

We find this historic revisionism amusing. Also as a new internet e lafda for fun. I watched the video of your so called Sanskrit University and he wrote Hindi on the board btw.
You can keep believing in whatever fantasy fiction land you can. Dreaming is interest free.
 

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