Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Falcon26]

You are highly mistaken

Present evidence else your claim is pointless

 

[Dalit]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1998/08/28/pakistan-says-it-is-studying-errant-us-missile/47c5cf73-901f-4734-bac8-4c9edb46b3ac/

You think Pakistan only has one Babur missile?

 

[Dalit]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

As for guidance, my question is how can Pakistan make semiconductor chipsets which is critical in guidance. INS requires sophisticated chipset and the mission computers need chipsets too.

Let's suppose that whatever you claim is true. Does it make the missiles less reliable?

If I were India, I would be more concerned with the upcoming two front war.

 

[samejjangir]

The making of seminconductors and chips is not difficult, the challenge is the scale of Intel , AMD and the foundries of large semiconductor companies. Pak army does have small scale foundries and custom chip designs labs.

Designing is easy as it just is a software thing. But etching the chip in nanometer scale is where the problem comes. But, even small scale chip production still needs the same technology of etching as large scale. Although small scale machines with older technology are more easily sold by USA and hence many countries have them, they need regular spares from USA and can produce too few chips in a single cycle as USA intentionally designed it that way to prevent defence use.

 

[samejjangir]

All China or combo of Pakistani design and manufacturing in China. You can basically send any chipset design there and they’ll produce it for you based on the quality.

You forget Pakistan does have the closest alliance to the world’s factory where everyone from Texas Instruments to Qualcomm and Xilinx all manufacture items - and those factories like SMIC are happy to make non branded copies for anyone with money. Today in Pakistan if you want to, you can get the complete chipset(s) or even substrate to design for your custom ICBM guidance - to the required physical tolerance specifications(and the knowledge base exists already in the organizations. Send the files off to the Chinese factory, they will quote you multiple quality/quantity items and voila.. all is up and running.

I’ve mentioned this ad nauseum but we had BEL manufactured microwave components, MCs and so on manufactured 2010 January and sitting in a cardboard box in ziplocks in offices by March 2010 to test out and see if worth sending for copy or testing against components in Pakistani systems.

Even back when Babur was first getting ready the guidance chips were all commercially available or dual use.. no problem with access or scale.

Need to test a UAV? No problem - Israeli Flights computer sitting around to put jt through its paces.

Today, with China where it is now - Pakistan has ZERO problems accessing ANY chipset design or configuration barring its imagination and knowledge base.

China is not in any military alliance with Pakistan. China hardly gets any real benefit from Pakistan and Pakistan's flip flops with USA, regular attacks on CPEC etc make Chinese more suspicious. If you think China is going to blindly arm Pakistan for no returns, then that is not happening.

Pakistan may have obtained some components here and there but that does not mean it has the capability to test or make them on its own as that requires extremely complex infrastructure, machinery, tooling etc.

Using of dual use or commercial guidance is not going to work as they don't have reliable INS but instead rely on GPS. GPS can easily be jammed. You can even get a USB GPS jammer on Amazon! Jamming GPS signals over large areas is easily doable

Let's suppose that whatever you claim is true. Does it make the missiles less reliable?

If I were India, I would be more concerned with the upcoming two front war.

Yes, if you use imported components, then they are likely going to be export grade which does not have good INS but relies on GPS and that makes it unreliable when GPS is jammed

 

[Dalit]

China is not in any military alliance with Pakistan. China hardly gets any real benefit from Pakistan and Pakistan's flip flops with USA, regular attacks on CPEC etc make Chinese more suspicious. If you think China is going to blindly arm Pakistan for no returns, then that is not happening.

Pakistan may have obtained some components here and there but that does not mean it has the capability to test or make them on its own as that requires extremely complex infrastructure, machinery, tooling etc.

Using of dual use or commercial guidance is not going to work as they don't have reliable INS but instead rely on GPS. GPS can easily be jammed. You can even get a USB GPS jammer on Amazon! Jamming GPS signals over large areas is easily doable

Yes, if you use imported components, then they are likely going to be export grade which does not have good INS but relies on GPS and that makes it unreliable when GPS is jammed

So you should be able to very easily fight against Pakistan and capture Kashmir and the rest of Pakistani territory? Why don't you go for it instead of ranting on this forum and lecturing how unreliable Pakistani missiles are? Why are you wasting time on useless discussions? India has already won LOL

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan has now developed indigenous turbojet engines for its cruise missiles,

Pakistan's GIDS
NTJ-V1 turbojet engines
Dry Weight 67 kg
Thrust 3.6 kN
Storage life 24 years
View attachment 25430View attachment 25431

Very interesting and low storage life? Wonder why ?

 

[SD 10]

Very interesting and low storage life? Wonder why ?

24 years is low?

 

[Ak01]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

As for guidance, my question is how can Pakistan make semiconductor chipsets which is critical in guidance. INS requires sophisticated chipset and the mission computers need chipsets too.

designs can be fabricated elsewhere, the domestically designed radar trms are likely fabricated by aselsan

 

[Sparten]

All China or combo of Pakistani design and manufacturing in China. You can basically send any chipset design there and they’ll produce it for you based on the quality.

You forget Pakistan does have the closest alliance to the world’s factory where everyone from Texas Instruments to Qualcomm and Xilinx all manufacture items - and those factories like SMIC are happy to make non branded copies for anyone with money. Today in Pakistan if you want to, you can get the complete chipset(s) or even substrate to design for your custom ICBM guidance - to the required physical tolerance specifications(and the knowledge base exists already in the organizations. Send the files off to the Chinese factory, they will quote you multiple quality/quantity items and voila.. all is up and running.

I’ve mentioned this ad nauseum but we had BEL manufactured microwave components, MCs and so on manufactured 2010 January and sitting in a cardboard box in ziplocks in offices by March 2010 to test out and see if worth sending for copy or testing against components in Pakistani systems.

Even back when Babur was first getting ready the guidance chips were all commercially available or dual use.. no problem with access or scale.

Need to test a UAV? No problem - Israeli Flights computer sitting around to put jt through its paces.

Today, with China where it is now - Pakistan has ZERO problems accessing ANY chipset design or configuration barring its imagination and knowledge base.

As far as I know, for strategic systems, they have gone totally local, accepting the cost and performance penalty.

Stutnex really terrified the military and it was only by the grace of Allah that we didn't suffer a similar fate, since we used locally made not commercial controllers, and that since the controllers used to be highly restricted in the 1970's (unlike the 2000's) we had no choice.

 

[arjunk]

China is not in any military alliance with Pakistan. China hardly gets any real benefit from Pakistan and Pakistan's flip flops with USA, regular attacks on CPEC etc make Chinese more suspicious. If you think China is going to blindly arm Pakistan for no returns, then that is not happening

Its true guys Xi Jinping and whole CCP consult samej jangir from india before deciding on alliance with pakistan

 

[arjunk]

Stutnex really terrified the military and it was only by the grace of Allah that we didn't suffer a similar fate, since we used locally made not commercial controllers, and that since the controllers used to be highly restricted in the 1970's (unlike the 2000's) we had no choice.

Stutnext targeted some Pakistani and Indian computers as well

 

[War Lord]

Someone I know (kinda friend) of mine who works for one of the aviation engine biggies, brilliant guy, obviously.

He'd applied for the military side of things but the scrutiny and background checks were a bit too much (being a foreigner etc).. says he could maybe have got through but decided its too much of a headache (would have been very difficult to even travel back home for family visits) so he went the easier way with the civvie stuff. Even there, even as a rookie.. company/industry secrets ka kaafi scene hai. They're extremely wary of espionage and that whole scene.

The amount/length of background checks needed to get even the lowest level of security clearance for jobs at Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, BAE and others in the US (abroad too) along with the bureaucratic red tape leads many to go towards Silicon Valley/Texas/Colorado instead of these MIC giants.

But that just means that there's always job openings at these MIC giants also. When I was in Uni (last decade) a couple of grads from our Engineering school came from LM to recruit potential interns for LM offices in Southern New Jersey, along with NY & CT.

They mentioned tons of different projects for tons of different LM divisions. And they were looking for all types of Engineers, not just Mech or Software ones.

 

[Oscar]

China is not in any military alliance with Pakistan. China hardly gets any real benefit from Pakistan and Pakistan's flip flops with USA, regular attacks on CPEC etc make Chinese more suspicious. If you think China is going to blindly arm Pakistan for no returns, then that is not happening.

Pakistan may have obtained some components here and there but that does not mean it has the capability to test or make them on its own as that requires extremely complex infrastructure, machinery, tooling etc.

Using of dual use or commercial guidance is not going to work as they don't have reliable INS but instead rely on GPS. GPS can easily be jammed. You can even get a USB GPS jammer on Amazon! Jamming GPS signals over large areas is easily doable

Yes, if you use imported components, then they are likely going to be export grade which does not have good INS but relies on GPS and that makes it unreliable when GPS is jammed

You can see what you wish - but it adds NOTHING to the overall context which is that Pakistan has everything available for its strategic programs be it local or through China and other sources .

Dual use was 20-25 years ago.. today it’s all purpose built in house your assertions on benefits to access or use and so on are basically useless arguments to me because I worked in that ecosystem, have friends and colleagues who worked or still work so I know more than you as an Indian on a Pakistani forum trying to shoot tangential arguments to assuage your own self. Lets agree to disagree and not waste time.

 

[MastanKhan]

Tomahawk Chinese copy ones of course. The failed tomahawks that fell in Pk in 2001-2 were promptly handed over to the Chinese for reverse engineering aka copying.

Proper iron little brother style.

Hi,

They did not fail---they just ran out of fuel---.