Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

Covid and fuel prices didn’t invent Pakistan’s problems. They just exposed them. The rot began long before 2020 and comes from inside the system, not from oil markets or lockdowns.


they did actually

one only needs to look at:

1. interest rate swings
2. un-seen tall inflation rates
3. bursts in property market
4. surge in $ Basis
5. lack of employment and rise in poverty
6. diminishing large scale production


BTW, each of the problem is very Pak. specific.

But you are right as well
 
A grim portent:
Strategic think tanks in India have considered the possibility of a single massive decapitating nuclear strike on Pakistan with hundreds of warheads . From the Indian perspective based on the May 2025 conflict experience the operation appears feasible with no major consequences for India. It will be a "one way " street.
The success of this potential strike is ensured by the weaknesses exposed during the May 2025 conflict :

  • Pakistan has limited and ineffective anti-missile defenses Most Brahmos missiles were not intercepted and a swarm of nuclear tipped missiles will wreak complete devastation.
  • Pakistan has limited and ineffective missile attack warning systems. Pakistan has no effective missile launch detection, tracking and warning system in place. Neither the impending attacks on the mosques and schools on May 6th-7th nor the attacks on the air bases on May 9th-10th were detected until the impacts. So the retaliatory "launch on detect " option appears unrealistic.
  • Pakistan has no nuclear attack proof hardened command and control center with the top military and civilian leadership still residing and operating out of home offices in colonial legacy style sprawling bungalows. Even the GHQ buildings are normal commercial buildings that can be taken out by conventional missiles alone.
  • Pakistan has no camouflage, masking, or cover capability that conceals the whereabouts of the critical decision making centers, 100% of Pakistani territory is under enemy satellite high resolution optical surveillance. This was evident during the release of high resolution pictures of missile impacts on Pakistani air bases,
  • Electronic surveillance, There is a strong possibility that communications in Pakistan are compromised and the whereabouts of the top military and civilian leadership are known and tracked by the enemy. Media appearances on live television easily give away the locations of top military and civilian personnel
  • Civil defense: There is no evidence of any civil defense procedures such as safe shelters, bunkers that the top military or civilian leadership can retreat to . There has never been any fire drill or missile warning exercise of the National Assembly or Senate while in session and one strike could decapitate the leadership. Worse there is no back up chain of command even if there are survivors after the nuclear attack.
  • Pakistan has no backup airborne command and control systems such as the "doomsday jets " that are used by the USA and Russia. In any case the warning time even if available, is too short for any sort of airborne C3 platform to take off.



"And me personally, would rather be vaporized by a nuclear fireball, than live under foreign occupation. Ask the West Bank what happens when you surrender to your occupier"

Agree here. Hopefully our younger generation are aware of this, However based on Hindutva doctrine, the enemy wants Pakistan's territory without the population so in retrospect a foreign occupation is unlikely,
India has no effective defence against Pakistani ballistic missiles either.

A nuclear armed raad/babur can detonate before it is even detected by Indian AD radars.
 
8 months later, some Indians still believe the IAF wreckage in Pampore was either Jf17 or J10 😂
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


This is uniform of IOJK fire fighter, if it is PAk. jet, then india should show the wreckage

problem solved!
 

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    50.2 KB · Views: 6
This only stands true if the people feel enfranchised by the nation. Your assumption that there is some massive secular support to grab guns and fight is again a military fantasy and not realitiy.
Quite to the contrary I was suggesting the opposite. A fatigued Gen Z population addicted to the fantasy of India as portrayed in Bollywood would be completely at ease to an Indian annexation. This has happened in the case of the territories of Goa, Daman, Diu, Pondicherry, Chandanagore, whose populations fatigued under Portuguese and French colonial rule decided to support Indian military "liberation ". Sikkim too was annexed by India when the population was tired of the despotic regime of the ruler ( Chogyal). Hyderabad was annexed in 1948 because the population was fed up of the despotic Nizam rule, Hence a similar annexation of a bankrupt war weary Pakistan is theoretically feasible if the "urban professionals " want it. The question is what is the reality? Sometimes a population's nationalist sentiment is misread
Example : It was assumed that a similarly fatigued and religiously ethnic divided Iraqi population would welcome liberation from Saddam Hussain's regime. A similar experiment may be underway in Iran
The assumption that Pakistanis would view an Indian invasion as liberation misunderstands both history and current reality. There is no broad desire to “merge” with India, only a deep fatigue with internal dysfunction.
How do we know there is no broad desire to merge with India? Is there any Pew research or Gallup poll that supports this view? Were the sentiments of the Bengali population in our erstwhile Eastern wing accurately read in 1971 ? Did the Bengali population of East Pakistan view the Indian military incursion as an invasion or liberation?
Today’s Pakistan is fragmented by economic crisis and ethnic divides, not united under martial law or waiting for outside salvation. If such a war ever occurred, most citizens would likely retreat into apathy or self-preservation rather than mount a patriotic defense or welcome invaders.
That is very good news for India , that has long maintained that Pakistan is an illegal entity carved from sovereign Indian territory by a combination of foreign colonial intrigue and a false religious identity of a population forcibly converted to a religion that is foreign to the sub-continent.
So only the weak Pakistani army has to be defeated for Pakistan to be easily annexed, and the population integrated.
In fact India effectively demonstrated this course of action when it defeated the Portuguese Army and took Goa. For the record the Portugal ( a NATO power by the way ) had ruled Goa for 600 years and the people of Goa were officially Portuguese citizens. Today the urban professionals of Goa would have been EU nationals with full employment and travel rights with the EU ( but that is another issue) .
The comparison to 1971 ignores how much social trust has eroded since then and how different the political consciousness of present-day Pakistanis has become.
If you read my post I was comparing the desire of the newly liberated secular population of East Pakistan to merge with India. If you study the history of the left wing movement in adjoining West Bengal and its counterpart in what is now Bangladesh, you can see how back then the call for merger with India echoed by Maulana Bhashani and Tiger Siddique, was taken up by their left wing West Bengali Indian counterparts, Azizul Haque, Hannan Mollah, and Gani Khan Chowdhury, Bangladesh didn't merge back into India because the Brahmin lobby in the West Bengal Congress did not want a merger of the population that would inevitably elect a Muslim Chief Minister.
Trying to compare Indian Muslims to this alleged invasion is whataboutism to try and shifts from “what do Pakistanis want” to “are Indian Muslims perfectly secure,” which does nothing to prove that Pakistanis secretly desire annexation or endless war.
The word Pakistani itself is a fairly recent definition ( since 1947) , prior to which we were all Indian Muslims, So it's not what-aboutism, The definition of Pakistan in the Pakistan Declaration of 1940 defines it as a "Homeland for Indian Muslims " so we can't de-hyphenate Pakistanis from Indian Muslims, ...at least not until India annexes us when there will be no Pakistanis ( just as there are no East Pakistanis today ) .
Question:
What does being apathetic and neutral to an Indian invasion of Pakistan ( exactly like the Indian Muslims are today ) mean? Desire for annexation or resistance?
Even if Indian Muslims face discrimination and structural barriers, that reality does not turn 240 million Pakistanis into willing candidates for absorption into another state. The core issue remains that most Pakistanis are preoccupied with inflation, jobs, security and ethnic fault lines inside their own country, not with a hypothetical upgrade to Indian citizenship.
It's not a "hypothetical upgrade" to Indian citizenship. India has demonstrated these upgrades to the people of Goa, Daman, Diu, Dadar and Nagar Haveli, Chandan Nagore, Pondicherry, Sikkim and Lakshadweep ( forgot that one). India annexed Hyderabad in 1948 to make it the Silicon Valley of South Asia. Isn't that upgrade real and attractive?
Pointing to Indian Muslims is a diversion from answering what Pakistanis themselves actually think or need.
Quite the reverse I pointed out the potential for economic security, female empowerment, a secular democratic environment, and personal safety for the people of Pakistan if they revert to becoming Indian Muslims ( which we all were before 1947 ) .
Your questions echo the same whataboutism by deflecting from Pakistani realities to hypothetical Indian ones. Urban professionals in Karachi already struggle with jobs and housing amid local collapse, not because of annexation dreams but due to internal mismanagement they endure daily. Food access for Pakistanis hinges on economic rot and supply failures within their borders, not some Maslow-scale comparison to India.
Read my responses above. An annexation by India is the solution to all the problems faced by urban professionals in Karachi. Ask the urban professional in Hyderabad and Goa how their lives improved beyond their wildest dreams after India annexed their territory. Believe me the Karachi urban professional will be way better off getting employment in Mumbai, Pune, or Hyderabad. If he or she changes her/his name, eating habits and religion, housing will never be a problem.
Resistance here is not holy war but basic apathy born of exhaustion, not devotion. This sidesteps the point: Pakistanis prioritize survival over either endless conflict or foreign absorption.
I agree, You have made a powerful argument. Resistance is futile. The Pakistani Armed Forces will be defeated yet again and must not be supported. An Indian annexation is the best option for the economic prosperity, and personal safety of our people. I agree to give up my Chapali kababs as I revert to becoming an Indian Muslim

Would like our Indian members to comment on this @Vkdindian1 @Raj-Hindustani.
 
Last edited:
Quite to the contrary I was suggesting the opposite. A fatigued Gen Z population addicted to the fantasy of India as portrayed in Bollywood would be completely at ease to an Indian annexation. This has happened in the case of the territories of Goa, Daman, Diu, Pondicherry, Chandanagore, whose populations fatigued under Portuguese and French colonial rule decided to support Indian military "liberation ". Sikkim too was annexed by India when the population was tired of the despotic regime of the ruler ( Chogyal). Hyderabad was annexed in 1948 because the population was fed up of the despotic Nizam rule, Hence a similar annexation of a bankrupt war weary Pakistan is theoretically feasible if the "urban professionals " want it. The question is what is the reality? Sometimes a population's nationalist sentiment is misread
Example : It was assumed that a similarly fatigued and religiously ethnic divided Iraqi population would welcome liberation from Saddam Hussain's regime. A similar experiment may be underway in Iran

How do we know there is no broad desire to merge with India? Is there any Pew research or Gallup poll that supports this view? Were the sentiments of the Bengali population in our erstwhile Eastern wing accurately read in 1971 ? Did the Bengali population of East Pakistan view the Indian military incursion as an invasion or liberation?

That is very good news for India , that has long maintained that Pakistan is an illegal entity carved from sovereign Indian territory by a combination of foreign colonial intrigue and a false religious identity of a population forcibly converted to a religion that is foreign to the sub-continent.
So only the weak Pakistani army has to be defeated for Pakistan to be easily annexed, and the population integrated.
In fact India effectively demonstrated this course of action when it defeated the Portuguese Army and took Goa. For the record the Portugal ( a NATO power by the way ) had ruled Goa for 600 years and the people of Goa were officially Portuguese citizens. Today the urban professionals of Goa would have been EU nationals with full employment and travel rights with the EU ( but that is another issue) .

If you read my post I was comparing the desire of the newly liberated secular population of East Pakistan to merge with India. If you study the history of the left wing movement in adjoining West Bengal and its counterpart in what is now Bangladesh, you can see how back then the call for merger with India echoed by Maulana Bhashani and Tiger Siddique, was taken up by their left wing West Bengali Indian counterparts, Azizul Haque, Hannan Mollah, and Gani Khan Chowdhury, Bangladesh didn't merge back into India because the Brahmin lobby in the West Bengal Congress did not want a merger of the population that would inevitably elect a Muslim Chief Minister.

The word Pakistani itself is a fairly recent definition ( since 1947) , prior to which we were all Indian Muslims, So it's not what-aboutism, The definition of Pakistan in the Pakistan Declaration of 1940 defines it as a "Homeland for Indian Muslims " so we can't de-hyphenate Pakistanis from Indian Muslims, ...at least not until India annexes us when there will be no Pakistanis ( just as there are no East Pakistanis today ) .
Question:
What does being apathetic and neutral to an Indian invasion of Pakistan ( exactly like the Indian Muslims are today ) mean? Desire for annexation or resistance?

It's not a "hypothetical upgrade" to Indian citizenship. India has demonstrated these upgrades to the people of Goa, Daman, Diu, Dadar and Nagar Haveli, Chandan Nagore, Pondicherry, Sikkim and Lakshadweep ( forgot that one). India annexed Hyderabad in 1948 to make it the Silicon Valley of South Asia. Isn't that upgrade real and attractive?

Quite the reverse I pointed out the potential for economic security, female empowerment, a secular democratic environment, and personal safety for the people of Pakistan if they revert to becoming Indian Muslims ( which we all were before 1947 ) .

Read my responses above. An annexation by India is the solution to all the problems faced by urban professionals in Karachi. Ask the urban professional in Hyderabad and Goa how their lives improved beyond their wildest dreams after India annexed their territory. Believe me the Karachi urban professional will be way better off getting employment in Mumbai, Pune, or Hyderabad. If he or she changes her/his name, eating habits and religion, housing will never be a problem.

I agree, You have made a powerful argument. Resistance is futile. The Pakistani Armed Forces will be defeated yet again and must not be supported. An Indian annexation is the best option for the economic prosperity, and personal safety of our people. I agree to give up my Chapali kababs as I revert to becoming an Indian Muslim
Could we have a poll here as to how many PDF members support the re-integration of Pakistan back into India today?
 
Could we have a poll here as to how many PDF members support the re-integration of Pakistan back into India today?
Why would you want a poll for such a useless question ?

Pakistani public craves a normal country that offers opportunity, dignity, good standard of living and safety. Pakistanis will defend their nation but are not interested in another 79 years of hostility with India, especially since the previous 79 years largely proved great for the Armed Forces only and nobody else.
 
Could we have a poll here as to how many PDF members support the re-integration of Pakistan back into India today?
Sir, no need to troll us all!

Your original question is essentially one that is related to psychology, at least partially.

I think Pakistanis will fight the eastern bastard qom CONVENTIONALLY for as long as it takes (to the end, or until nuclear weapons are used). BTW, that descriptor is not as harsh as you may think, when you consider the association between Nehru, Lord Mountbatten, and Lady Mountbatten - I digress.

Why will Pakistan fight tooth and nail?

Because Indians are mentally weak as a qom, beyond their armed forces who have been trained well to face off against us. As a nation state, it has a huge and spongy underbelly, wherein the civilians will (a) cower in fear at the thought of an advancing horde of Mughal/Afghan spawn arriving from the west, (b) be disunited and restive enough to remain significantly apathetic towards any determined occupation of their territory (they have forgotten about China's hostile occupation of their territory, for example), and (c) some dormant rebel groups will actually take the opportunity to violently target the central government - India is fundamentally a collection of forcibly unified and vastly different rival city states with no one unifying ideology (though rabid anti-Pakistan sentiment is arguably the most important unifying ideology many of them do have).

Indian civilians excel at thrashing their fellow civilians for all sorts of reasons, but they won't go underground and resist a military advance as a nation like Ukraine or Afghanistan might. Pakistan knows that as soon as it takes a counter attack into Indian territory, they will fold.

As for the contrasting mentality of the Pakistani qom, it is a nation state and civilian population sustained of a sense of survival, struggle, and determination to endure, the same criteria upon which our nation was founded. Jinnah fought tooth and nail to bypass Nehru and Gandhi and, at the same time, force Mountbatten's hand in creating Pakistan. Don't forget, in May 1947, the Cabinet Mission Plan was presented to Jinnah by Montie, to try and convince him to accept a unified India post-British withdrawal. Jinnah refused this plan and stood firm on Pakistan.

Any people that recognises the heavy COST paid in the creation of their nation and that stubbornly subscribes to a unifying and well defined ideology will ultimately fight its rivals with great determination. I know some folks may be upset by this, but the birth of Pakistan shares certain characteristics with that of USA and even Israel - say what you will about those nations but they certainly were born out of acts of great determination and they still do fight ferociously for what they perceive to be their sovereign rights.
 
Covid and fuel prices didn’t invent Pakistan’s problems. They just exposed them. The rot began long before 2020 and comes from inside the system, not from oil markets or lockdowns.
abd to this day. Not an iota has been done to address even 1% ofthe root cause even with massive preasure from IMF.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Pakistan Defence Latest

Back
Top