INS_Vikrant
Registered Member
@Indos time to change the title of the thread 
AMCA News and Discussion
- Thread starter Indos
- Start date
Honestly, it's enough... HAL and the whole Indian aviation industry is almost like Stavatti! Fancy models, bolt claims but otherwise NOTHING!!
I know Indians especially won't like to hear this—they're currently in the midst of their celebrations—but what's the point? Teja's Mk. 1A is long overdue, and the Mk. 2 hasn't even had its rollout yet! AMCA's design isn't finalized (even according to IDRW they are still diligently working on the geometry), and none of the three mentioned suppliers have any experience in the complete implementation of such a project. They've all certainly developed and built things here and there, and perhaps even manufactured some as suppliers for HAL, but how is a project that isn't even fully thought in CAD supposed to be ready for its maiden flight by 2028/29 made by a team that has never done such a task??
Additionally IDRW is a tabloid that lately seems to be putting more effort into generating nonsensical images with AI than into accurate reporting!
I would almost bet that the AMCA in 203x is still nothing more than a collection of funny AI pictures, models and lots of promises in the vein of "Jai Hind"!
I know Indians especially won't like to hear this—they're currently in the midst of their celebrations—but what's the point? Teja's Mk. 1A is long overdue, and the Mk. 2 hasn't even had its rollout yet! AMCA's design isn't finalized (even according to IDRW they are still diligently working on the geometry), and none of the three mentioned suppliers have any experience in the complete implementation of such a project. They've all certainly developed and built things here and there, and perhaps even manufactured some as suppliers for HAL, but how is a project that isn't even fully thought in CAD supposed to be ready for its maiden flight by 2028/29 made by a team that has never done such a task??
Additionally IDRW is a tabloid that lately seems to be putting more effort into generating nonsensical images with AI than into accurate reporting!
I would almost bet that the AMCA in 203x is still nothing more than a collection of funny AI pictures, models and lots of promises in the vein of "Jai Hind"!
Vkdindian1
Registered Member
Complete first timers have been given the reigns for a sixth gen product? How would they manage it?
HAL has it’s own issues but it still remains a domain expert and could have contributed in the areas where the chosen companies have no past experience.
Dark clouds already seem to be gathering over AMCA.
onlinpunit
Trusted Member
100% sure that they will do it better than HAL..
Indian Pvt Companies where ever given freedom do reasonably good.
Who? none of the current manufacturers involved in 6th generation fighters are complete newcomers! CAC, SAC, LM and Boeing ... have all already proven that they have successfully completed previous generation and/or are even still producing then!
Vkdindian1
Registered Member
I was talking about companies shortlisted for AMCA.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
Well, HAL would still manufacture the engines for AMCA even if it is not going to assemble them 
And anyways the contract timelines (at least on paper) suggest 8 years is the deadline for the completion of the AMCA project so if contract is given now, it has to be built, tested and certified by 2034. Either way induction is less likely before 2038-40. So yes, people might not like it but HAL will offer Su-57 to IAF and they will gladly buy it as nobody with good enough IQ levels is going to wait for 15 years just to get a few squadrons of 5th generations of IOC standard when PLAAF would have 1000+ mature 5th gens and 6th gens as well as stealth CCAs.
And all of this is optimistic scenario. That the engine programme would complete by 2036 but that will mean only limited AMCA to be built with GE F414 reducing production capacity and only by 2040 can mass production be expected, again if "all goes right". Only later will they get into service in meaningful numbers, 20 years from now.
But that is inevitable since very few countries have been working on it, and as tech gets more advanced even fewer would be left. Only US and China have 6th gen fighter projects for a reason, while also being the only countries with own 5th gen fighter jets in service.
And anyways the contract timelines (at least on paper) suggest 8 years is the deadline for the completion of the AMCA project so if contract is given now, it has to be built, tested and certified by 2034. Either way induction is less likely before 2038-40. So yes, people might not like it but HAL will offer Su-57 to IAF and they will gladly buy it as nobody with good enough IQ levels is going to wait for 15 years just to get a few squadrons of 5th generations of IOC standard when PLAAF would have 1000+ mature 5th gens and 6th gens as well as stealth CCAs.
And all of this is optimistic scenario. That the engine programme would complete by 2036 but that will mean only limited AMCA to be built with GE F414 reducing production capacity and only by 2040 can mass production be expected, again if "all goes right". Only later will they get into service in meaningful numbers, 20 years from now.
But that is inevitable since very few countries have been working on it, and as tech gets more advanced even fewer would be left. Only US and China have 6th gen fighter projects for a reason, while also being the only countries with own 5th gen fighter jets in service.
Most gorgeous news ever! They may not do well, but this is an invaluable lesson. Private companies like Tata, Bharat Forge etc are doing amazing job. This is a valuable learning lesson. Remove HAL from all future projects. Finally, we may see a working plane built in India! Ofcourse government needs to spend a lot of money.
Shui
Registered Member
Well, HAL would still manufacture the engines for AMCA even if it is not going to assemble them
And anyways the contract timelines (at least on paper) suggest 8 years is the deadline for the completion of the AMCA project so if contract is given now, it has to be built, tested and certified by 2034. Either way induction is less likely before 2038-40. So yes, people might not like it but HAL will offer Su-57 to IAF and they will gladly buy it as nobody with good enough IQ levels is going to wait for 15 years just to get a few squadrons of 5th generations of IOC standard when PLAAF would have 1000+ mature 5th gens and 6th gens as well as stealth CCAs.
And all of this is optimistic scenario. That the engine programme would complete by 2036 but that will mean only limited AMCA to be built with GE F414 reducing production capacity and only by 2040 can mass production be expected, again if "all goes right". Only later will they get into service in meaningful numbers, 20 years from now.
But that is inevitable since very few countries have been working on it, and as tech gets more advanced even fewer would be left. Only US and China have 6th gen fighter projects for a reason, while also being the only countries with own 5th gen fighter jets in service.
If your airforce with even the slightest sane mind would have went for Su-57 from the beginning, what not up to the standard my ass, fund that project and you could have get your hand on it at least five years earlier and it also pave the way for Su-30 upgrade and some know how for domestic projects.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
You surely have no idea of the past. We were partners in Su-57 project but Russians never gave access to us despite taking hundreds of millions in payments. IAF then left it for good. Russians later found it difficult to finance and develop it on their own, so started to convince us again to look into the project, offering ToT as high as we got for Su-30MKI.
But it's too late now, and to indigenise it will also take a lot of time, i.e. fitting Indian AESA radar, EW suite, RWRs etc. along with integration of Indian weapons like it did with Su-30MKI.
Shui
Registered Member
So it's a dead end for IAF, there is no other better option or path since 2010s?
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
All are self-inflicted wounds of IAF, coming back to haunt them.
CallSignMaverick
Registered Member
"The sources said that ADA’s facilities would be used for various stages of the prototype development including testing and certification. As per the timeline decided, the five prototypes of India’s own fifth-generation fighter are set to be rolled out by 2031. The first prototype is expected to be rolled out by 2028 using the GE 414 engine.
The IAF plans to have seven squadrons of the AMCA, starting 2035, when the series production will start.
As per the expression of interest issued by ADA last year, the duration of the contract for development, prototyping, flight test and certification of AMCA shall not exceed eight years from the effective date of contract."
theprint.in
The IAF plans to have seven squadrons of the AMCA, starting 2035, when the series production will start.
As per the expression of interest issued by ADA last year, the duration of the contract for development, prototyping, flight test and certification of AMCA shall not exceed eight years from the effective date of contract."
HAL out, Indian private firm to make Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft fighter, all eyes on lowest bidder
As per the timeline decided, 5 prototypes of India’s own fifth-generation fighter are set to be rolled out by 2031, with the first by 2028 using the GE 414 engine.
theprint.in
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
Yes, of couse that "will" happen because we know how good the Indian aerospace industrial complex is at meeting "time lines" and "delivery dates".
LOL.
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