Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[harpy1]

Corrected. Results all depend on cultural changes and actual competence.

I won't buy that comment
Your insinuating there is a cultural and technical issue holding India back on its air force indengious abd modernisation programme

The reason I know this is completely the wrong narritive is we have living proof of Indian capability in science engineering and industrial capacity at hi tech levels which is world class or very close to it

India has quietly inducted it's third nuclear armed submarine
India has the biggest most competent space programme in Asia bar china we saw navic competency in Sindoor
We have our own silicon valley in bangalore generating 200 billion dollars in revenue from. Overseas a a year
Finally Indian science and engineering graduates dominate the biggest info tech companies in the world
See Macron speech at AI summit Mumbai this week

When India puts money and goals In place they will get this Air force modernisation programme in place at speed a d great effect

Weather it be Rafale license production
Amca programme
Or Tejas induction
Or the Netra two Awacs

They are all coming guaranteed
We finally have the people that will make this happen
Modi
Rajnath Singh
And outspoken Air chief Singh who pulls no punches in critical analysis
I like him

 

[harpy1]

Safran & India to co-develop clean sheet fighter jet engine for AMCA

Safran has agreed to an unprecedented full technology transfer to co-develop a clean-sheet AMCA fighter engine in India.

aerospaceglobalnews.com

You know people should stop poo pooing everything based on Tejas delays

The air force have locked leadership direction and decision making and investment

Today they have all three
And more than any nation It's France that is going to help India with this modernisation effort

Note the Safren hal. Building
Note the new fifth generation Safren engine programme
Amca will be much more efficient programme than Tejas
Rafale will fill the immediate need for 150 new fighters air force and navy
Amca is the future 2035 onwards
Tejas is your cheap budget numbers filler home grown
I like what the air force are doing and France is the most trusted of all allies better than Russia on time lines and technology but by god they are expensive

 

[Yasser76]

Corrected. Results all depend on cultural changes and actual competence.

Yup, lack of accoutability and integrity hurting IAF now massively. It has become politicised.

How else do you explain them forcing their own CAS to claim 12 Pakistan jets destroyed and no one even in BJP supporting him? Left to make stupid statements and then hung out to dry.

In an organisation like that junior officers will learn it is not facts or truth that will get them in the good books, but just telling their seniors what they want to hear.

That is fatal in any orgsanisation, be it a private company or the military.

If their are IAF officers out their really thinking they shot down 12 PAF planes can you imagine the collective delusion within the institution?

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Safran & India to co-develop clean sheet fighter jet engine for AMCA

Safran has agreed to an unprecedented full technology transfer to co-develop a clean-sheet AMCA fighter engine in India.

aerospaceglobalnews.com

You know people should stop poo pooing everything based on Tejas delays

The air force have locked leadership direction and decision making and investment

Today they have all three
And more than any nation It's France that is going to help India with this modernisation effort

Note the Safren hal. Building
Note the new fifth generation Safren engine programme
Amca will be much more efficient programme than Tejas
Rafale will fill the immediate need for 150 new fighters air force and navy
Amca is the future 2035 onwards
Tejas is your cheap budget numbers filler home grown
I like what the air force are doing and France is the most trusted of all allies better than Russia on time lines and technology but by god they are expensive

Tejas is your cheap budget numbers filler home grown - why India need such thing?

The Tejas is practically a waste of resources now, given that indian main adversaries are China and Pakistan. Instead, India should use that money for an indigenized and upgraded Su-57—integrated with Indian systems—and for the AMCA program.

 

[harpy1]

Tejas is your cheap budget numbers filler home grown - why India need such thing?

The Tejas is practically a waste of resources now, given that indian main adversaries are China and Pakistan. Instead, India should use that money for an indigenized and upgraded Su-57—integrated with Indian systems—and for the AMCA program.

The Tejas profile fits an envisaged role
Quick reaction
Close to loc and Lsc
Bvr equipped
Low rcs
Aesa radar
Networked to work in Wolfe packs
Allowing bigger assets to stay well out of reach and have fewer sorties

Finally India cannot have 600 Rafales and su30/su57 only

They need the budget planes at 50 million each
Rafales cost 150 million each
Su30mki upgraded super 100 million plus
We need 200 Tejas budget planes

Pakistan has 150 budget planes thunders
Will have 40J35
And 30 J10
As more expensive hi end

 

[harpy1]

If all goes has plans the Airforce envisages

200 Tejas mark 1/1a/1b
150 Rafales block 3/4/5
270 Mki and super Mki

Those Tejas are needed to get 30sqds at lower. Cost

A four pack of Tejas hunting together would have 16 Astra one 160km bvrs =all with Aesa radars
All working together
Two sorties a day

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

@harpy1 What would be the cost of the Tejas and the Su-57 if they were made in India, and what is the capability gap between them? I believe older jets in the current Indian inventory, along with drones, should fill the roles intended for the Tejas. The Tejas is a sitting duck, especially with China set to have 1,000 fifth-generation fighters and beginning to acquire sixth-generation jets. The Tejas would only be a good choice if India's adversary were not China.

India should include a 'Good for what' concept in its doctrine. Anyway, it's just my personal view and I am no expert, so I might be wrong. Those in higher positions know things much better, so it's not that what they are doing is wrong; perhaps we just aren't able to understand it for now.

 

[Corax]

If all goes has plans the Airforce envisages

200 Tejas mark 1/1a/1b
150 Rafales block 3/4/5
270 Mki and super Mki

Those Tejas are needed to get 30sqds at lower. Cost

A four pack of Tejas hunting together would have 16 Astra one 160km bvrs =all with Aesa radars
All working together
Two sorties a day

What happened to tejus MkII?

 

[harpy1]

What happened to tejus MkII?

There are rumours surfing the Tejas mark two will only be five prototypes to test the Aesa radars and bigger USA Ge 414 engines Ew suites etc and then no order made

The focus and money will be all in on Amca only.

I think the Rafale order with license production in India has killed Tejas mark two weeks will find out soon enough after Rafale is announced in later 2026

 

[harpy1]

@harpy1 What would be the cost of the Tejas and the Su-57 if they were made in India, and what is the capability gap between them? I believe older jets in the current Indian inventory, along with drones, should fill the roles intended for the Tejas. The Tejas is a sitting duck, especially with China set to have 1,000 fifth-generation fighters and beginning to acquire sixth-generation jets. The Tejas would only be a good choice if India's adversary were not China.

India should include a 'Good for what' concept in its doctrine. Anyway, it's just my personal view and I am no expert, so I might be wrong. Those in higher positions know things much better, so it's not that what they are doing is wrong; perhaps we just aren't able to understand it for now.

No country in the world bar USA can Field 1000 fifth generation fighters by 2035

The Tejas was and will be Mig 21/23 replacement only
Its hear it's now
The Rafale will replace the mirage 2000 and jaguars and Mig 29.
The su30mki will be upgraded but only in batches

Su57 is on the table Russia is desperate for India to ditch Rafale and hand them the 40 billion

But the Airforce have decided the Su57 in it's current state is not true fifth generation and the Ukraine war will mean slow production rates also USA caatsa sanctions means waiting is good idea

Waiting for what you may ask
One conclusion of Ukraine war sk no sanctions threat
Two an improved su57 with new engines and lower stealth profile .

India is eyeing Su57 and may very well turn to Russia but not right now
It's full steam ahead Rafales and Safren engines

 

[harpy1]

@harpy1 What would be the cost of the Tejas and the Su-57 if they were made in India, and what is the capability gap between them? I believe older jets in the current Indian inventory, along with drones, should fill the roles intended for the Tejas. The Tejas is a sitting duck, especially with China set to have 1,000 fifth-generation fighters and beginning to acquire sixth-generation jets. The Tejas would only be a good choice if India's adversary were not China.

India should include a 'Good for what' concept in its doctrine. Anyway, it's just my personal view and I am no expert, so I might be wrong. Those in higher positions know things much better, so it's not that what they are doing is wrong; perhaps we just aren't able to understand it for now.

The Tejas on paper is fine 4th generation fighters
Lowest Rcs in India
Aesa radars
New Bvrs with 160km range
High sortie rates
Low cost relative to Rafale or 50milion v 150 million Rafales
It lacks combat radius and load abs will be stationed close to borders

They will be first reaction fighters and the workhorses

They are will be networked to fight in large packs 4/8 planes each
Or
As force multiple packs to increase diversion tactics for bigger Mki and Rafale combinations

Capability wise in the ball mark of Thunders and early model j10a

Better than legacy F16 or mirage2000 by virtue lower Rcs abs Aesa radars

If china gets 1000 j20 then nobody on earth can meet this threat bar USA. I doubt china fields 1000 for India this huge fleet is for USA Japan S Korea combined not India

200 is more than enough to beat India

 

[Corax]

There are rumours surfing the Tejas mark two will only be five prototypes to test the Aesa radars and bigger USA Ge 414 engines Ew suites etc and then no order made

The focus and money will be all in on Amca only.

I think the Rafale order with license production in India has killed Tejas mark two weeks will find out soon enough after Rafale is announced in later 2026

So tejus MKII is effectively dead. The other tejus numbers seem overly optimistic as well without a viable engine solution, should have gone with the M88 option instead of GE414 given the supposed tie up with Safran and Rafale deal, but then hindsight is a wonderful thing I guess. Assuming those tejus/Rafale numbers are realised, that's a lot of similar specced engines from two different sources to maintain, so I wouldn't assume higher serviceability for tejus. SU30MKIs seem to be bomb trucks for SOWs it seems, unlikely to be put into frontline A2A roles given their losses and poor performance.

 

[Yasser76]

So tejus MKII is effectively dead. The other tejus numbers seem overly optimistic as well without a viable engine solution, should have gone with the M88 option instead of GE414 given the supposed tie up with Safran and Rafale deal, but then hindsight is a wonderful thing I guess. Assuming those tejus/Rafale numbers are realised, that's a lot of similar specced engines from two different sources to maintain, so I wouldn't assume higher serviceability for tejus. SU30MKIs seem to be bomb trucks for SOWs it seems, unlikely to be put into frontline A2A roles given their losses and poor performance.

SU-30MKI is now pretty much obsolete.

It will simply not survive against the F-16C/D/MLU or the J-17C/J-10C. Those planes make up around 35% of PAF.

Upgrade programme was "cleared", "approved" or whatever BS Indians call taking an interest in, years ago and no progress.

As you say, think they will keep it as bomb truck/SOW carrier.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

No country in the world bar USA can Field 1000 fifth generation fighters by 2035

The Tejas was and will be Mig 21/23 replacement only
Its hear it's now
The Rafale will replace the mirage 2000 and jaguars and Mig 29.
The su30mki will be upgraded but only in batches

Su57 is on the table Russia is desperate for India to ditch Rafale and hand them the 40 billion

But the Airforce have decided the Su57 in it's current state is not true fifth generation and the Ukraine war will mean slow production rates also USA caatsa sanctions means waiting is good idea

Waiting for what you may ask
One conclusion of Ukraine war sk no sanctions threat
Two an improved su57 with new engines and lower stealth profile .

India is eyeing Su57 and may very well turn to Russia but not right now
It's full steam ahead Rafales and Safren engines

The Tejas on paper is fine 4th generation fighters
Lowest Rcs in India
Aesa radars
New Bvrs with 160km range
High sortie rates
Low cost relative to Rafale or 50milion v 150 million Rafales
It lacks combat radius and load abs will be stationed close to borders

They will be first reaction fighters and the workhorses

They are will be networked to fight in large packs 4/8 planes each
Or
As force multiple packs to increase diversion tactics for bigger Mki and Rafale combinations

Capability wise in the ball mark of Thunders and early model j10a

Better than legacy F16 or mirage2000 by virtue lower Rcs abs Aesa radars

If china gets 1000 j20 then nobody on earth can meet this threat bar USA. I doubt china fields 1000 for India this huge fleet is for USA Japan S Korea combined not India

200 is more than enough to beat India

Just wait and watch China cross the 1,000-unit mark.

I agree with your points regarding the Rafale and its role; however, in my view, it is not competitive with the Su-57. Both belong to different classes and should serve different roles. Furthermore, in terms of development, you won't have the same level of freedom with the Rafale that you would get with the Su-57.

Regarding the Tejas, I am not suggesting it is a bad aircraft; it would be effective if your primary adversary were Pakistan or other neighboring countries. But when you factor China into the equation, the Tejas' role becomes insignificant enough to justify replacing it with the Rafale or Su-57—even if the Tejas were available in double or triple the numbers.

Anyway, it's just a debate, so let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Sam6536]

Right now India seems to have very little influence beyond it;s own backyard.

BD, and Pakistan are at loggerheads with you, Iranian port dream is over. Pakistan taking a proactive military role in Mid East. 7th May did your military reputation no favours.

BD issue is temporary it will subside just like what happened with Maldives. BNP is a pragmatic party, even if it was Jamaat at the helm in the longer run considering the geography the trade and political relation will normalise.

Iran's situation is very tricky right now. Even if we wanted to continue the port's affairs we wouldn't be able to given their domestic and international turmoil. By the way India hasn't exited the ports affairs entirely, the news that broke out a while ago was India taking an off hand approach and diverging the liabilities of government officials from American sanctions.

7th May was a skirmish, you did well by increasing export numbers for the JF17 and J10C but it doesn't really change the geopolitical calculus of the region.