Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[r3alist]

When India starts to prioritise something the results can be world class

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Last decade or so

What am I meant to be looking at?

How come we don't see anything at the street level

 

[Oscar]

We need Scientists like Kalam or Vikram Sarabhai to spear head such projects. Leaders with vision and charisma. Changing the entire model and the ecosystem seems almost impossible. The reason is our society and deeply entrenched work culture issues.

I think the best reflection of it is the AI summit. Both the momentum that led to it but also the massive issues both in organizational aspects and spurious claims made while the supposed partnerships in this summit cant even get along.

 

[Vkdindian1]

I think the best reflection of it is the AI summit. Both the momentum that led to it but also the massive issues both in organizational aspects and spurious claims made while the supposed partnerships in this summit cant even get along.

Precisely my concern too about this summit. Galgoita robodog was just one scandal that came in limelight. If someone digs deeper, there are likely to be large numbers Galgoitas, who got away safely.

Had a similar summit taken place in a developed or an accountable society, the outcome would be astronomical. In this case the outcome would be far short of the potential. Modi and Co. are well aware of it and probably hope, that atleast a minuscule numbers take it forward. Had Modi not done this summit even that may have remained a pipe dream.

I personally know, few very small entities, that have done amazing work on AI and were surviving from one small project to another. After this summit a few of them have got better visibility and have been called for further deliberations.

Would they succeed and move forward? I am sceptical but hopeful too.

 

[harpy1]

What am I meant to be looking at?

How come we don't see anything at the street level

You have spent a thread telling us about Indian mentality and limited ceiling to match chinease and other leading nations in development admittedly in aerospace

I am demonstrating proof of your narritive being completely and utterly wrong

When the focus and investments match it's plain to see what can be achieved

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They get to the moon

 

[Ali_Baba]

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I for one believe the French aerospace technology is as good as the best without the strings of USA or delivery issues of Russia

How ever you pay thru the nose tried and tested partner and wise choice to get Indian air power up to speed this next decade

Yes, France makes quality products and you pay for that privilege, but look at how they are treating Germany in FCAS to know that they will not do TOT on the crown jewels of engines, or aviation aerospace. Germany is a lot more important to France than India is..

 

[harpy1]

Yes, France makes quality products and you pay for that privilege, but look at how they are treating Germany in FCAS to know that they will not do TOT on the crown jewels of engines, or aviation aerospace. Germany is a lot more important to France than India is..

Germany are not spending 50 billion on french military hardware
India is
Im not expecting total tech transfer
Enough to get a joint development fifth generation engine thru assistance
And potentially assistance on Amca
In return they expect India to buy acquire rafales in huge no's and potentially even Fcas in future
This is a long term strategic relationship not a simple transaction
France has the biggest military market in its hands

 

[Ali_Baba]

Germany are not spending 50 billion on french military hardware
India is
Im not expecting total tech transfer
Enough to get a joint development fifth generation engine thru assistance
And potentially assistance on Amca
In return they expect India to buy acquire rafales in huge no's and potentially even Fcas in future
This is a long term strategic relationship not a simple transaction
France has the biggest military market in its hands

FCAS is a far far bigger program than "50 billion" ...

 

[WARSIDT]

Since you didn't read my post later, I asked about single crystal turbine blades for afterburning turbofans, the one you showed is for helicopter turboshafts.

Never denied Turkey has SCTBs for turboshafts, just that I haven't seen any for afterburning turbofans. Do share if you have any info

You tried to move the goalposts on the single crystal blades, but it doesn't really work that way. Your original question was clearly asking if Türkiye has single crystal blade manufacturing capability, and I provided the physical proof from TÜBİTAK MAM. The TS1400 SCTBs are 100% relevant because they prove that the fundamental metallurgical threshold investment casting, ceramic core integration, and single crystal growth has been successfully mastered.

In materials science, once you achieve this for the high-pressure turbine of a turboshaft, applying it to an afterburning turbofan is a matter of scaling geometry and cooling channel design, not inventing a completely new science. And to answer your revised condition: Yes, this exact same indigenous single crystal technology from the KRISTAL project is already being utilized in the hot sections of the TEI-TF6000 and its afterburning derivative, the TEI-TF10000 turbofan.

India has built PTAE-7/W, STFE Manik and HTFE-25 and tested it with afterburner. Kaveri and KDE are what most people talk of. Then there is a turboshaft under testing named HTSE-1200.

What makes you think India hasn't been license manufacturing foreign jet engines? Try spending some time on HAL's website and the engines they offer.

Lmao thats ignorance. GTRE and HAL have been showcasing nearly all components they make inhouse and that includes SCTBs.
View attachment 179509View attachment 179510View attachment 179511View attachment 179512

(From here on, it's generally about Indian users trying to gain the upper hand with ridiculously large GDP figures.)

Also, I've seen a lot of comments from your side constantly bringing up GDP, inflation, and saying Türkiye's economy is too small to compete. But if you think about it logically, boasting about a massive GDP while watching a much smaller economy achieve in a few short years what took you decades to figure out isn't exactly a flex. It should actually make you stop and ask yourselves, "If this country can do all of this with a fraction of the budget and manpower, why are we still struggling?" Sure, you'll probably try to bring up that you build aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines next. Yet, Türkiye is already building its own indigenous aircraft carrier, producing its own AIP submarines with indigenous VLS, and has started the R&D for a nuclear propulsion system under the NÜKDEN project.

Look, India's problem isn't a lack of intelligence. You can't call any nation or its people "stupid." It’s a management and governance issue. Every country has its chronic flaws, but India's specific problem in the defense sector seems to be failing to put the right experts in the right positions, combined with a lack of solid political will. You have massively more manpower and economic power than Türkiye or Israel, yet we consistently see projects either failing or taking absurdly long. Yes, you have some beautifully done projects, but if we look at the overall success percentage, the results are just not great.

Take Türkiye’s Altay MBT as a comparison. It is widely known as our absolute slowest, most delayed project. When Germany refused to sell us the engine, the Turkish public absolutely roasted our own government. Some blamed Germany, but most heavily criticized the Turkish state itself. And what was the result? All the foreign-dependent subsystems on the Altay were indigenized. A South Korean powerpack was secured as a stopgap, and simultaneously, the Turkish company BMC successfully developed an indigenous engine and transmission from scratch. Today, despite being our most problematic project, the tank has entered serial production and a brand-new factory was built for it.

Anyway... I have zero interest in this kind of pissing contest. You explicitly asked for proof to see if we could do it, and I simply provided the data. I saw Türkiye and China constantly being dragged into this Indian Air Force thread with a lot of dismissed facts and embraced ignorance, so I just dropped the actual information. I don't want to drag this discussion out any further; this isn't the right place for it in an IAF thread anyway.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

I saw Türkiye and China constantly being dragged into this Indian Air Force thread with a lot of dismissed facts and embraced ignorance, so I just dropped the actual information.

Fair enough but I never asked that whether turkey has SCTBs or not. The question was for jet engines, and turboshafts aren't same. Yes, turkey will eventually get there for turbofan SCTBs, undoubtedly.

Last part, ask your pakistani friends for that who for some reason love 2nd-hand bragging on behalf of Türkiye or China for trolling us. We don't bring Türkiye or China here.

I just posted an update on Kaveri Derivative Engine, and they got triggered over it idk why

 

[harpy1]

FCAS is a far far bigger program than "50 billion" ...

The 50 billion is what India is paying
For
26 Marine Rafales already ordered for Vikrant carrier
114 Rafale F4/F5 signing this year
31 marine Rafale potentially for iac two navy pushing for new second Vikrant carrier by 2035

The Indian air force top brass are exploring post Amca sixth generation options

Indian trade and military relations with Europe are set to explode next decade

Both Gcap and Fcas are potential options post Rafale and Amca induction

This may come as direct purchase or support for Amca successor but air chiefs and Rajnath Singh we need partnerships in his recent address to media for post Amca
The are looking way beyond Rafale and Amca

India will leverage it's huge military spending clout in post 2035-2040 period

Is India Accelerating Its Sixth-Generation Fighter Plans? Defence Minister Rajnath Singh Calls for Early Action

The Indian defence establishment is proposing a resounding change in its future of air power projection planning as Defence Minister Rajnath Singh advocated an early and sustained initiative of the sixth-generation fighter technologies.

igmp.in

 

[WARSIDT]

Fair enough but I never asked that whether turkey has SCTBs or not. The question was for jet engines, and turboshafts aren't same. Yes, turkey will eventually get there for turbofan SCTBs, undoubtedly.

Last part, ask your pakistani friends for that who for some reason love 2nd-hand bragging on behalf of Türkiye or China for trolling us. We don't bring Türkiye or China here.

I just posted an update on Kaveri Derivative Engine, and they got triggered over it idk why

Last I checked, I don't have any friends on this forum. Pakistani users, or users from any other country for that matter, are none of my concern. I only drop by here occasionally to read the news and comments, and I very rarely post anything.

As for your point about them bragging on our behalf: some do it simply because these two countries are the only current examples available for comparison. Some take it way too far and defend things in ways that even I personally wouldn't. Honestly, I've witnessed and still witness that the people who bash the products made by Türkiye the most are actually my own people. Some go to extremes, while the logical ones tear systems apart based on their own valid critiques. The fanatic or ultra-nationalist crowd is living in a completely different world anyway.

So, I don't really care about the unrealistic garbage people write, even if it's from my own countrymen. If I can, I just give the factual info and move on. Since I've seen so many people reject facts even when presented with the truth, I comment even less nowadays.

And I'm pretty sure most of those Pakistani users know this reality: Neither China nor Türkiye sells weapons to Pakistan because we are "friends." It is strictly business. Things like "brotherhood" and "friendship" between nations simply do not exist, at least not in the real world. It all comes down to money and aligned interests. The moment the Turkish government changes, our business relationship with Pakistan could easily just become a standard "sell, take the money, and move on" transaction. Or, depending on the financial situation, they might even want to sell weapons to India, prompting a return to strict neutrality. Nobody knows.

Just to show you Türkiye's actual perspective on India, I'll leave this link here. The deal was eventually cancelled by the Indian Government, but check the date of the news:

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/turkiye-ve-hindistan-arasinda-2-3-milyar-dolarlik-rekor-anlasma/

Like I said, it's just business and overlapping interests.

 

[harpy1]

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This deal will be concluded at some point despite Rahul Gandhi best efforts
I said it again
This is a strategic deal Macron said confirmed this deal will big jobs in India and key transfer technologies
Inaddition I hope entry to Fcas eventually

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

It's the desi chalte hai attitude meaning don't worry take your time attitude

It's this attitude that saw Indian Airforce let itself become 90% obselete for two decades despite today having the fifth largest defense budget in the world

The two things don't corralate

Two slaps in 2020 Galwan and Sindoor 2025 has finally woke these dhoti wale up we need to send money and keep up with the neighbours

Hence rushing for Rafales
Speaking to Russia about updated version of Su57
Abd taken Hal off Amca programme passed to Private industry
They are running to catch up
Good luck we need 10 years and 100 billion dollars investment

From an Indian perspective, this is the most strategic approach to developing a comprehensive ecosystem: utilizing the partnership with France for immediate 'stop-gap' gains, while leveraging Russian foundational technology to build indigenous capacity. This is particularly effective when involving private companies. American goodies are not the best fit and basically a distraction for India because of the strings attached.

Just my personal view.

 

[Malcolm Reynolds]

From an Indian perspective, this is the most strategic approach to developing a comprehensive ecosystem: utilizing the partnership with France for immediate 'stop-gap' gains, while leveraging Russian foundational technology to build indigenous capacity. This is particularly effective when involving private companies. American goodies are not the best fit and basically a distraction for India because of the strings attached.

Just my personal view.

You have caught on to what we are going to do.

 

[Oscar]

You have caught on to what we are hoping to do.

Corrected. Results all depend on cultural changes and actual competence.