Turkey Greece Relations and Maritime Disputes

[hyperman]

And eventually Turkey will eat a Fait(not Fiat)Accompli in the head when it rushes to do something,calling on "muh rights"

You fundamentally misjudge the power dynamics and trajectory of your own country and Turkey's trajectory. As well frankly the current global dynamics.

 

[Foinikas]

yo you have no idea how international law works do you? lol

There is no defined element where it says All continents have to agree or someone from every continent has to agree otherwise its not international law.

The Law is only bound to those states who sign it. Comprende?

There is no magic number of the amount of countries that have to have signed it, no oh it needs to include all continents or whatever.

Half the people in the eastern Mediterranean have not ratified it.

View attachment 186635

This is like thinking the ICC has jurisdiction over the United States b/c it says International in the title.

If you think Turkey is breaking "International Law", sue Turkey in the ICJ, see which court you get to accept the case, any court you go to will tell you for it to be binding the two parties need to be part the agreement under which the court would have the power to rule.

This is basic understanding of "International Law" and Westphalian Sovereignty vis a vi multilateral agreements, the world is treated as a jungle, and in the jungle the authority comes from agreements between states. Whats decided between states is based on what agreements the countries enter into.

This is like India and Pakistan not signing the NPT, are they breaking "International Law", not really. b/c they aren't signatories.

Did North Korea break the NPT? again legally speaking? no, b/c it withdrew(its legal to withdraw).

So what is the break of the law? the breaking of the law(in regards to states) is when you agree to something but then you don't do it.

Westphalian system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Like I said earlier,the whole problem starts from the moment Turkey doesn't go along the lines UNCLOS. In the end,all Turkey truly has as an argument,
the true argument behind all the hypocritical nonsense,is "Do what we want or we go to war". The rest about peace,negotiations,talks and international court is bull.

 

[Foinikas]

You fundamentally misjudge the power dynamics and trajectory of your own country and Turkey's trajectory. As well frankly the current global dynamics.

No,you fundamentally put too much trust on Erdogan's shenanigans. Turkey has been balancing on two boats for a long time now and eventually will be in trouble. The sudden rise came with extreme arrogance and ambition. Suddenly Turks think none will touch them or noone can hit them.

 

[hyperman]

Like I said earlier,the whole problem starts from the moment Turkey doesn't go along the lines UNCLOS. In the end,all Turkey truly has as an argument,
the true argument behind all the hypocritical nonsense,is "Do what we want or we go to war". The rest about peace,negotiations,talks and international court is bull.

You will choose if a conflict happen or not or the status quo will remain. The Choice will be up to you.

But never think that you can do something and Turkey will not respond, that is a bad assumption.

 

[Foinikas]

You will choose if a conflict happen or not or the status quo will remain. The Choice will be up to you.

But never think that you can do something and Turkey will not respond, that is a bad assumption.

Extortion guy comes: "Give me half your front yard or I beat you up. The choice is yours. It's not my fault,it's your fault. Give me half your house or I'll be forced to kick your ass."

 

[Oublious]

Extortion guy comes: "Give me half your front yard or I beat you up. The choice is yours. It's not my fault,it's your fault. Give me half your house or I'll be forced to kick your ass."

what dumb argument aahhaha.

 

[Foinikas]

what dumb argument aahhaha.

That's how Turkey acts though. Like an extortionist bully.

 

[hyperman]

Extortion guy comes: "Give me half your front yard or I beat you up. The choice is yours. It's not my fault,it's your fault. Give me half your house or I'll be forced to kick your ass."

no, more like two guys are having a dispute over the front yard, and one guys say ok, until we both agree, don't dig up the yard and also I will not dig. If you dig I will dig too, so lets leave that alone until we demarcate it.

One guy decides no I will dig, Its mine, then the other guy goes ok I will dig too then, then the other guy gets upset and says how dare you dig, the other guy goes, i said i will not dig unless you dig. Then it escalates where he says If you dig I will stop you and fight you, the guy goes ok, then i will fight back. The first guy goes, oh yeah, I will bring some guys in the neighborhood they will come and fight you with me, you better back down or else. The second guy goes, I'm not scared of your friend I will defend my interests, but don't go sitting on their shoulders and throwing weight around, they might not come and you will end up having to fight me alone.

The guy goes, Hah, I'm stronger, look at these second hand gloves, I think they are better than your gloves, the second guy goes, think wisely you are an old man and getting older, and I have many advantages, and there is a lot more to the fight than a pair of gloves.

Then the first guy goes, YOU SEE, HE IS THREATENING TO KICK MY ASS, UNLESS I GIVE HIM MY YARD.

The second guy goes no, not doing anything like that, i'm saying we leave it alone, have some tea together and come to an agreement, until an agreement, no one touches it. To which the guy goes, Why shouldn't I touch it? I will touch it wherever, why should i not touch it, to which the guy goes, if you dig, i will not stand by, I will dig too. Which then outrages the man again. Then the patten repeats itself over and over again, and then pretends he doesn't understand and accuses the second guy, saying he wants to beat him up unless he gives him land.

 

[Foinikas]

no, more like two guys are having a dispute over the front yard, and one guys say ok, until we both agree, don't dig up the yard and also I will not dig. If you dig I will dig too, so lets leave that alone until we demarcate it.

One guy decides no I will dig, Its mine, then the other guy goes ok I will dig too then, then the other guy gets upset and says how dare you dig, the other guy goes, i said i will not dig unless you dig. Then it escalates where he says If you dig I will stop you and fight you, the guy goes ok, then i will fight back. The first guy goes, oh yeah, I will bring some guys in the neighborhood they will come and fight you with me, you better back down or else. The second guy goes, I'm not scared of your friend I will defend my interests, but don't go sitting on their shoulders and throwing weight around, they might not come and you will end up having to fight me alone.

The guy goes, Hah, I'm stronger, look at these second hand gloves, I think they are better than your gloves, the second guy goes, think wisely you are an old man and getting older, and I have many advantages, and there is a lot more to the fight than a pair of gloves.

Then the first guy goes, YOU SEE, HE IS THREATENING TO KICK MY ASS, UNLESS I GIVE HIM MY YARD.

The second guy goes no, not doing anything like that, i'm saying we leave it alone, have some tea together and come to an agreement, until an agreement, no one touches it. To which the guy goes, Why shouldn't I touch it? I will touch it wherever, why should i not touch it, to which the guy goes, if you dig, i will not stand by, I will dig too. Which then outrages the man again. Then the patten repeats itself over and over again, and then pretends he doesn't understand and accuses the second guy, saying he wants to beat him up unless he gives him land.

Turkey,eternally a superpower and victim at the same time. The only nation after Israel which plays the victim card and claiming love for peace,while constantly threatening to annex everyone. Truly you two deserve each other.

 

[hyperman]

Turkey,eternally a superpower and victim at the same time. The only nation after Israel which plays the victim card and claiming love for peace,while constantly threatening to annex everyone. Truly you two deserve each other.

Supa Powa Hellas

Greek Rafales too strong.

Achilles Shield, Dendias said Turkey can't do anything, he will show the Turks by expanding seas to 12 miles. Kicks those turks out of Cyprus and put pipeline.

 

[Foinikas]

Supa Powa Hellas

Greek Rafales too strong.

Achilles Shield, Dendias said Turkey can't do anything, he will show the Turks by expanding seas to 12 miles. Kicks those turks out of Cyprus and put pipeline.

It is said a blonde race from the north will do that instead. So hang on.

 

[MMM-E]

Even UNCLOS says Turkiye is right


Greek islands can not block Turkiye's rights

Greece is not an Archipelagic State

Turkiye insists that equitable principles (special circumstances, proportionality, etc.) must prevail in semi-enclosed seas like the Aegean especially to avoid giving excessive effect to small/offshore islands

Turkiye rejects full EEZ/continental shelf rights for Greek Islands east of the 25th meridian (closer to Turkiye)

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According to UNCLOS
The principle of equity – equitable solution is the rule (UNCLOS Articles 74/83)
Articles 74 and 83 as reflecting customary international law , meaning Turkiye considers the core obligation to achieve an equitable solution to be binding on all states

Special/relevant circumstances must be considered
In line with ICJ jurisprudence cases like North Sea Continental Shelf, Libya/Malta, UK/France, etc.), Turkiye insists that delimitation must account for relevant circumstances, such as:

• Geographical configuration (presence of numerous islands close to one coast).
• Proportionality (coastal length ratio vs. maritime area allocated).
• Avoiding disproportionate effects from small or remote islands.
• Preventing "cut-off" or "enclavement" of a state's coastline.

 

[Foinikas]

Even UNCLOS says Turkiye is right


Greek islands can not block Turkiye's rights

Greece is not an Archipelagic State

Turkiye insists that equitable principles (special circumstances, proportionality, etc.) must prevail in semi-enclosed seas like the Aegean especially to avoid giving excessive effect to small/offshore islands

A thousand times I showed you why you're wrong and we all know where this is going to end again: You getting mad when I show you that your arguments are wrong and you're going to start talking about "Greek dreams in 1922" and Manzikert in 1070 and Cyprus in 1974 at which point hyperman will come in and spit a "lol",I'll report your spam and you will start repeating lists of superweapons,while mocking the capabilities of every other country.

It's like you're stuck in a loop and taking everyone in it as well.

 

[Foinikas]

According to UNCLOS
The principle of equity – equitable solution is the rule (UNCLOS Articles 74/83)
Articles 74 and 83 as reflecting customary international law , meaning Turkiye considers the core obligation to achieve an equitable solution to be binding on all states

Special/relevant circumstances must be considered
In line with ICJ jurisprudence cases like North Sea Continental Shelf, Libya/Malta, UK/France, etc.), Turkiye insists that delimitation must account for relevant circumstances, such as:

• Geographical configuration (presence of numerous islands close to one coast).
• Proportionality (coastal length ratio vs. maritime area allocated).
• Avoiding disproportionate effects from small or remote islands.
• Preventing "cut-off" or "enclavement" of a state's coastline.

The mistake of Turkey: Special Circumstances​

At the end of 1986, Turkey unilaterally proclaimed a two hundred mile EEZ in the Black Sea. This move was in accordance with the provisions of UNCLOS, which Turkey has ironically never signed or ratified. Concurrently, Turkey reached an agreement on delimitation of the EEZ with the Soviet Union. This agreement used the equidistance method. There were no provisions of special circumstances or any reference to enclosed or semi-enclosed seas.


Thus Turkey, by accepting the concept of the EEZ as developed through UNCLOS, has weakened its position vis-à-vis Greece. This represents a fatal mistake for Turkey, a veritable Achilles heel in its dispute with Greece. Turkey’s attempt to implement a double standard position regarding the treatment of two semi-enclosed seas (Black and Aegean) is difficult to defend. It is simply an attempt to make a clear differentiation between delimitation of its maritime boundaries in the Black Sea and the Aegean Sea. A country cannot make a convincing argument by selectively choosing the parts of the convention it likes or dislikes.

 

[MMM-E]

It's like you're stuck in a loop and taking everyone in it as well.

Your silly posts and trolling wont change the reality
We are showing You UNCLOS articles 74 and 83 that have proved Turkiye is right

Your Islands can not generate EEZ to steal legal rights from Turkish Mainland

Doesn't your brain understand this ?
Take any country you want with you, USA, France, Israel, it doesn't matter.
Greeks can steal nothing from the Turks

Greek style nonsense doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.