Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[clutch]

USA has nothing too loose.. They already secured everything for them thorugh Venezuela.. Only Iran and the whole of Arab world will be finished starting Tuesday night, Allah forbid..

What is ordained, is ordained. We can only make sure we die standing on the side of haq (justice and truth).

 

[EugeneP]

Many, if not most, on this forum know from long ago that I do not like Trump. But to me, the idea that Trump is being 'played' by Netanyahu is just -- unbelievable. I do not know Trump personally, never even met him, but most likely I have more anti-Trump books than anyone on this forum have read in my home library. The common theme in all those anti-Trump books is that Stump is his own man. Clump trust no one but his gut instincts and lesser his family. So far, politically speaking, Dump is better than average and that is what driving the Democrats nuts.

Now, regarding the war...

My suspicion is that is Iraq is the primary lesson for Bump and his advisors. Am not talking WMDs even though it is clearer than Iraq that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons state status. Am talking about the 'imminent threat' status.

The question is: Can you afford a potential threat to become imminent?

A 'potential' threat remains potential as long as they are somehow incapable of getting out of that state, and as long as they remains potential, you can afford to keep just monitoring them. But once they approaches imminent state, now you must allocate greater political and military resources towards defending yourself.

We all know the old saying supposedly from Clausewitz: War is the continuation of politics by other means.

Actually, the original is: War is the continuation of POLICY by other means.

It is not pedantic.

Policy is an idea or what you want to do. Or a one-way street.

Politics is when your idea conflicts with someone else's idea. Or a two-way street.

If politics is successful, then we have a compromise where no one gets everything but everyone got something. Politics is what we want.

It is possible to falsely believe what is policy by the other side. And this happens on a regular basis.

I believe that Trump and his advisors are convinced, falsely or else, that it is POLICY of Iran to attack the US once Iran become a nuclear weapons state. I could be wrong, but whether I am wrong or right is 50/50. Just like anyone else's guess. Sure, the Israelis definitely have their inputs, but there are also plenty of Trump's inner and outer circles who are suspicious of Israel's motives. So, from this conviction, again false or else, Trump and his advisors decided the US cannot afford to have Iran reached that 'imminent threat' state. If I look at this strictly from a military perspective, the denial of 'imminent threat' state is a much more desirable approach.

I do not believe Trump and his advisors feared being attacked by Iran, but they all shared Israel/Netanyahu's belief that Israel will be attacked by Iran. Till that massacre of October 23, it would not have been easy for Israel to rope in U.S./Trump into this war. One thing that has surprised me is the almost complete lack of anti-war activism by any segment of population - Democrats, Republicans, Left, Right, Middle, nothing. Without much salesmanship by Trump and his supporters (unlike for 2003 Iraq war), public seems to instinctively accept that Iran is an enemy worth waging a war on. I had not expected that. Going by the lack of public activism globally against this war, it seems Iran's goodwill is a huge negative.

 

[Immortals]

And who can forget the 1962 Sino-India war too.

To many Yanks and Westerners, before was Chinese weapons junk, now PLA war skills suck.

You are talking about events from 60 years ago. Means very little today.

Look at Russia in Ukraine. By your logic because they performed so well in WW2, Georgia war, 2014 Ukraine war they should have steamrolled Ukraine. And yet their energy facilities are getting blown up worse than Iran right now and their tankers are being blown up or confiscated by Ukraine or NATO. Despite Russia having 10x+ the military weapons and capabilities of the Iranian military and 2000+ nuclear weapons.

Modern warfare is a lot different than the 60s or 70s. So pointing to wars half century ago isn’t evidence of anything.

 

[Forsvaret]

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Emiratis must be sniffing too much camel dung lately!

 

[clutch]

We have Donald Trump, a draft dodger chickenhawk who elevated a former US Army staff level officer to be Secretary of War.

Trump's entire administration is made of rejects, corrupt, criminals, and terrorists.

 

[clutch]

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Joke of the century. One hit on Burj Al Khalifa and the entire country will become an empty parking lot.

 

[ShapurII]

Joke of the century. One hit on Burj Al Khalifa and the entire country will become an empty parking lot.

If push comes to shove, we really should target Burj al-Khalifa. It needs to collapse in front of cameras.

 

[ShapurII]

@Immortals @Persian Gulf @Emirzad

We probably have over 100 missile cities, per Hajizadeh.
How do we provide them with electricity? Where does the electricity come from?

If we assume that Trump successfully destroys large parts of our power grid, will these missile cities be affected immediately?

 

[delta2]

As if they haven’t already? :
View attachment 190829

The USA will not nuke Iran.

The ultimate target is destruction of the GCC but specifically Saudi Arabia so the racist zioinists can have the "greater land". If Iran is destroyed in the process the it would be a big bonus for the zionists. The Iranian Mullahs are too stupid to realise or unerstand this. The Mullahs now are like Napolean when he said "God hates the English".

 

[IceCold]

Palestinian mother's have been crying for over 78 years.

Gaza, the mothers are also dead. Now their orphan babies cry.

No sympathy for the Polish Zionist colonizers. Go back.

Agreed 100%. The woman and her terrorist son both can rot in hell.

 

[delta2]

So you are admitting that the GCC has no capacity to make independent thought? Then why go through the effort of typing all this off-topic stuff? No need to lift their balls.

No, they are at the mercy of the USA. The KSA has some capacity for it but that requires asking Pakistan to ship a few nukes.

Nothing deters the White conservarive man more than the prospects of a bonebreaking fist to the jaw.

 

[EugeneP]

Both sides are nuts and fanatical at this point.

Neither side wants to blink first.

It is a truly zero-sum game. Nobody benefits by backing off. This is not like Iraq and Afghanistan wars in that sense. This is what happened in Vietnam war.

 

[ShapurII]

If "signs" of a deal emerge, not even a deal.
Looking for an excuse to TACO.

@AZ_HighCountry

 

[ety]

You are talking about events from 60 years ago. Means very little today.

Look at Russia in Ukraine. By your logic because they performed so well in WW2, Georgia war, 2014 Ukraine war they should have steamrolled Ukraine. And yet their energy facilities are getting blown up worse than Iran right now and their tankers are being blown up or confiscated by Ukraine or NATO. Despite Russia having 10x+ the military weapons and capabilities of the Iranian military and 2000+ nuclear weapons.

Modern warfare is a lot different than the 60s or 70s. So pointing to wars half century ago isn’t evidence of anything.

So what real war experiences does US has fighting a truly worthy opponent in recent decades ? Like barefoot Afghan fighters armed with AK 47 or incapacitated weak and backward Saddam's army. Yanks only fight much weaker opponents and only if they think they can win handsomely. Since you mentioned the last war China fought was the Korean war in the 1950s, that's factually incorrect, the last major war China fought was in 1979 and there were couple in between.

 

[delta2]

It is a truly zero-sum game. Nobody benefits by backing off. This is not like Iraq and Afghanistan wars in that sense. This is what happened in Vietnam war.

This will end in worse than Vietnam.

Both Iran and the GCC may be desroyed, and Pakistan may have a second Afghanistan on its border, with 10 to 15 milion Iranian refugees escaping into Pakistan to save their families from the brutal war that could kill all their boys and rape all of their girls.

Careful what you wish for. If you must wish for a war, you must have 100s of nukes to fry everyone within a day or two. Otherwise you are just asking for mass rape and slaughter. And we already know the Epstein class loves to do both.