US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

[جوبا]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

A senior US source vs a senior Iranian source
high quality journalism all around

 

[j_hungary]

In general, the label 'rule of law' applies only when sufficient number of society believes that the laws are fairly enforced, even though everyone knows we cannot have 1-1 police to citizenry. Over time, it is the norm to respect the laws, even in the absence of law enforcement.

But I will say this...

Most of what we call 'international laws' are actually Western values enforced by economic, cultural, and military might, whenever possible. So yes, we are discussing the respect for international laws from that perspective. South Africa's apartheid system, for example. The West do not like it, and various pressures were applied until the system broke. The open seas, or freedom of navigation (FON) is another Western value enforced by Western arms. In short, it is our norm, not the rest of the world, to respect the laws.

Don't have much time as I am having a busy weekend, so I am just going to reply in brief

The bold part is, it's still law tho, and UNCLOS is universally acknowledged by the world, making it "international." Again, I agree, power sometimes determines law; if you have money, you are more likely to get away with things, even in the US. But that does not mean the law should not be respected because you can do that.

I look at international affairs the way the cartels in Mexico or Bolivia looks at their countries. Yes, the US astride the world the way a cartel does in its part of Mexico.

Am NOT saying that the US should disregard 'international laws' by sheer virtue of being overwhelmingly powerful. Back in Desert Storm, I would not want our airmen to KNOWINGLY bomb a target surrounded by human shields. But here is the conundrum: Does the capacity and capability to ignore international laws, or at least norms, create the perception that the US is ALREADY above those international laws?

The international community ALREADY thinks so, backed up by instances and events of where the US did ignored international laws and norms. Waterboarding, for example. And yes, I know what waterboarding feel like. The UN Security Council is an example of the powerful putting themselves above the laws they imposed upon others.

Yes, the world is very much like Mexico or Bolivia.

Again, I agree the power structure and power dynamic within those organisations need to change, but that's not the point I am talking about.

Law works on people upholding it, and the legal system would always have flaws. The problem is, people see that there are social consequences (going back to the red light example, you crash), but if the people in the top start going back on it, and start publicly flaunting it, that's where the entire trust nature breakdown. And I can assure you, whether it's domestic or international law enforcement, it's 100% passive, as in it's ALWAYS a reaction, instead of a proactive action. So if you started to think you are going to get attacked anyway and there are no social recourse, what do you think people will start to do? They will start to take matters into their own hands.

No, we followed norms and laws because we matured AFTER our elders beat the sh!t out of us if we did not.

The diversity of countries demands a set of standards that must be enforced. Even hermit NKR has to obey some norms they do not like. And the only reason they obey is because there are others, like US or China, far more powerful than them.

What do you think NKR would do if China starts issuing an unapproachable demand?

Wait a sec...

International affairs IS the Wild Wild West. If someone wants to hurt US, there will be no fear of 'international laws' to stop them, vis-a-vis Sept 11, 2001.

Non-state actors have literally nothing to lose because they have no state to lose. They can be amorphous in a week. 'International laws' applies to nation-states precisely because each have so much to lose, and the more powerful you are, the more you are able to point that out. Al-Qaeda was able to hit US once, and the US responded by toppling 2 Muslims countries. How many RATIONAL countries are willing to take that gamble? None. Did the US collapsed after Sept 11, 2001? No. But did Iraq collapsed after the US invaded? Yes.

So regarding 'international laws', the more powerful you are, the less of the consequences you will feel should you ever break them. That is the honest and brutal truth. Always have been.

But invading Iraq and Afghanistan did not stop the problem, did it? Terrorist attacks still happen across the United States and will probably continue, yes, it's less of a smaller scale than it was in 9/11 (probably will never be able to again because that's very hard to pull off). But we are still getting attacked by the ISIS group, by AQ group and anyone that hate us. In fact, going down and invading those countries creates a bigger resentment

If we forego international law, people in those position will be more encouraged to attack us, because they don't believe there is a recourse anymore, that's again, going back to my point, you need to be perfect to stop an attack, but they only need to be lucky once.

Yes, they did. The emperor did. Just because a faction of the military refused to see the war's reality, does not negate what the emperor, the actual representative of JPN, wanted to do.

My GENERAL point is that as far as 'international laws' goes, persuasion does not work. Never has. It is fear that works. The more powerful you are, the less fearful you can be. If anything, that two world wars should made it clear that deterrence works, that economic and military powers works.

Actually, it isn't, because the emperor had been taken out of the power structure, and Japan was a military government at the onset of WW2. Most historians will tell you that

And yes, military power works, but that comes with a cost. And as Von Clauswitz said, it should be the final resolution before diplomacy.

In international affairs, power is EVERYTHING. Yes, the US got hurt on Sept 11, 2001, but in the end, who got hurt more? We got cut, we stemmed the bleeding, then we killed Afghanistan and Iraq. Am not saying we erased those countries off the map. Am saying their leaderships learned the hard way what happened if an angry US is not restrained. Yes, Iraq was not involved in 9-11, but in the aftermath, all we needed was a whiff of a hint of a clue of a suspicion, and Iraq felled. I do not care if Afghanistan never evolved out of the 7th century. Or the entirety of the ME, for that matter.

This is what I disagree with you.

We actually didn't do anything in Iraq and Afghanistan after 911. Iraq is very pro-Iran after our intervention. Look at how the Popular Front shot up? Funny thing is, we overturn the Iraqi government just to form another one that hates us, actually, more than they hate the Farsi, which they went to war with for 8 years before we got in there the first time in 1991.

And we completely lost control of Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation. The same fraction that fought us, the people I physically fought and killed during my time in Afghanistan, get back up and in control. If you ask me, as a person who fought in that country, what did we get out of that? I cannot asnwer you that question.

All the more reasons why other countries should get involved in keeping the strait open. And that is the point, as much as I do not like to admit it, that Trump is making. If it hurt US, then it must be hurting them 1x and I have no problems with that. The same grand scheme of thing you are using.


Yes, I am making, not a moral judgement, but a cold geopolitical calculus, that some countries MUST not be nuclear weapons states. Those that already are, we will live with them.


Yeah...That 'Death To America' has something to do with that...

For now, Asia can afford that luxury.

Actions have consequences, we can agree on that.

So making alliances have consequences as well. But the problem here is that being alone also have consequences. So what are nation-states to do? Even the mighty US and USSR had alliances: NATO and the Warsaw Pact.

The problem is, the Strait WAS open, and it's now closed because of Trump's action. And nobody in the world has an issue with how Iran governs or even whether or not having nuclear weapons; that does not concern Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam, let alone China, probably actually helping them to get one.

You don't just go and unilaterally attack a country and then say, " I am done and let the world deal with it. They have no moral or physical obligation to do that; if they are doing that, that's their initiative. But you can't force anyone else to deal with it.

On the other hand, I can tell you here in Australia, people don't really care about gas prices, as it was always been high. The same goes for every Asian country, as it would impact them as much, but you are starting to see the US paying European-level gas prices. Guess who will have a problem if this continues?

 

[Davey Crockett]

View attachment 191782

On the psychology of real estate developers like Witkoff, Kushner and Trump and how it fails them at war:

Non-Recourse National Strategy – Syncretica




—

The top negotiators for the ZOG empire are Jewish VCs and real estate speculators.

Article linked may help in understanding the "American" delegation.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

If Iran and US do a deal this will be a regional game changer, and for once I can really use that term. It has the potential to transform Pakistan and Irans economy

1) Oil pipeline
2) Use of Gwadar and Karachi ports as land transports for goods direct to Iran, Turkiye and then Europe, without going through Hormuz
3) Iran-Pak free trade deal
4) Development of Pak and Iran beachside resorts

No wonder UAE is fuming......

We all can hope for that, but considering Iranians historical attitude towards Pakistan, I am not so sure.
Did you not see in the main thread, Irani sentiments towards Pakistan, we might be facing Afghani types in Future.

Pakistan saved them from being a wiped out civilization and created a next boosted hyper version of Afghans.


Just a thought

 

[UndercoverJIX]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Sorry to say, but USA has become like India, under Trump. and Americans like Indian Andh Bhakhats....sorry

 

[F-22Raptor]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Wow

 

[Fatman17]

"US dominance has been fading." Maleeha Lodhi has represented Pakistan in Washington, London, and at the United Nations. She says brokering US-Iran talks shows Pakistan has emerged as a geopolitical player.

Read this weekend's interview with Mishal Husain here: https://bloom.bg/47NNlsU

: Bloomberg

 

[F-22Raptor]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Multiple US warships crossed east to west through the Strait and back to the Sea.

 

[Ali_Baba]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

This post just shows how 1-dimensional and short sighted MAGA based thinking is, and why we are past the peak of the American empire, and why the empire of the USA is coming to an end.

What this shows is the lack of thought of the actual elephant in room. The big elephant of solar power and renewable's. Expect the world to move x10 towards replacing oil ASAP and that will make all the effort that the USA has made in trying to conquer oil, a tad redundant anyway. Guess, who is the biggest provider of renewable green infrastructure and technology is ?????

Seems like some people seem to win, even if they don't do anything by letting others, make stupid mistakes.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Also important to note the US is now refining Venezuelan heavy crude. The US is gaining a chokehold over the worlds energy supply.

The future is renewables and this conflict have woken up the world to that one basic fact, not just for ideological reasons of "saving the planet" but for self preservation reasons of looking after ones own energy supplies and to never be held hostage again like this by the USA/Iran/Israel again.

 

[F-22Raptor]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The USN received no warnings from the Iranians.

 

[جوبا]

the lack of a proper navy would do that to you

Iran Unable to Find Mines It Planted in Strait of Hormuz, U.S. Says​

The lost mines have prevented Iran from quickly complying with President Trump’s demand to allow more ships to pass through the waterway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/10/us/politics/iran-mines-strait.html

 

[KingQamaR]

What do you mean months to rearm? Bush and Boxer groups will be in Centcom in 10 days. The amount of troops are enough for coastline operations and HEU extraction etc.

The US military has decisively defeated the Iranians. 90% of its missile and drone factories are destroyed after 5 weeks of combat. 80% of its nuclear industrial base destroyed. 80% of its air defense systems destroyed. Over 90% of its large vessels destroyed and half of its small attack vessels. 95% of its naval mines destroyed.

The Strait card has already been played. The Strait is closed and almost no ships are passing through. No ships equal no toll income. Brent crude is under $100 a barrel. US oil exports are at record highs. Inflation at an acceptable 3%. Stocks surging back to record highs.

Meanwhile, the Iranian economy is on the verge of collapse.

U.S, said the wars over … then why are so many troops being sent? And why was is he begging for help from us in U.K. & Nato?

 

[mythbuster]

We all can hope for that, but considering Iranians historical attitude towards Pakistan, I am not so sure.
Did you not see in the main thread, Irani sentiments towards Pakistan, we might be facing Afghani types in Future.

Pakistan saved them from being a wiped out civilization and created a next boosted hyper version of Afghans.


Just a thought

Hazarat Ali said , beware of the evil of the one you helped...

 

[mythbuster]

This post just shows how 1-dimensional and short sighted MAGA based thinking is, and why we are past the peak of the American empire, and why the empire of the USA is coming to an end.

What this shows is the lack of thought of the actual elephant in room. The big elephant of solar power and renewable's. Expect the world to move x10 towards replacing oil ASAP and that will make all the effort that the USA has made in trying to conquer oil, a tad redundant anyway. Guess, who is the biggest provider of renewable green infrastructure and technology is ?????

Seems like some people seem to win, even if they don't do anything by letting others, make stupid mistakes.

Are you happy or sad at the coming demise of the American empire?