World Bank places Pakistan in MENA, ending South Asia classification

LMAO!

Its quite strange we haven't passed through basics yet. Why can't you develop courage to accept truth.

I can say with 100% emaan and conviction that Your grand grand father was a hindu too. How else do you think Islam spread? Its spread through Dawah!

All of Indonesians were hindus, and they all accepted Islam through traders & Sufis. There was not a single military conquest of Indonesia.

I believe 100% of India (like indonesia) would have converted to Islam too had there not be constant raids by power hungry barbaric afghani invaders. Those afghanis came to loot india and gave a bad image to islam/muslims. Whatever Islam spread into india is through Dawah & Sufis and not by Sword. Infact Sword acted as counter effective. You need to super courageous to change your beliefs from your forefathers. So whoever converted in your lineage 300, 500, 700 years ago you must be appreciative of that person and aknowledge him.

We all Pakistanis were hindus at one point in time 100s of years ago were Hindus. Its no shame in it. Even Sahaba were converts. Nobody was a muslim except the Prophet. I know names of my forefathers upto 5 generations back, they all were muslims but I know for a fact that hundreds of years ago, any one of them would have converted. Otherwise its impossible to have so million muslims in Pakistan (more in india and bangaldesh today).

What you say is 100% hillarious lies and childish mentality. What you guys say makes ZERO sense and logic. There is no record of mass migrations from arabia to India in anywhere in history. Yes invaders do came but they go back. Whoever stayed, their lineage would be 0.000001% of total population. BTW! why on earth you want to be called arab ? Why can't you have your own identity linked with your own land ?? We Pakistanis have extremely rich history from our own land of indus valley civilization. Division happened in 47, but prior to that we lived together in indian subcontinent for 1000s of years and we share same history.

Its disgusting to know that some fellow Pakistanis want to be associated as "arabs" when we clearly have our own history. Every muslim is not an arab. You guys got a disease of superiority complex just like RSS extremists. There is no difference between you guys and them. Iranians are muslims but they would rather die but not be called as arabs. Its high time you say goodbye to ignorance and accept truth and facts for the first time in your life. I hope & pray you will open your mind to truth and come out of life of lies.
I can't say about others but let me just say I have no shame in accepting my ancestors were Hindus. BUT here is the difference. They were Kashmiri Pandit Hindus, not ordinary Hindus like rest of India and South Asia. They are the highest cast of Hindus. They do not associate with India culturally even if some plead political allegiance. It's extremely rare for them to marry outside their cast and that too with some ordinary Hindus from mainland India. You'll be surprised to know that they live like us. They eat red meat and follow similar traditions. You can make the case it's like Punjabi Hindus and Punjabi Muslims. Same ethnicity, different religion. However, in the case of Punjabi Hindus, especially the Khatri Hindus, most if not all were from West Punjab and after partition, they assimilated into mainstream Indian culture much more rapidly. Unlike the Pandits, the Punjabi Hindus were much more influential in business and Bollywood and that made them feel like celebrities and economically powerful in a much bigger market. So really in essence you have to look at some factors here. The racial, cultural, and the economic factor. Religion has nothing to do with it.
 
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You are thinking on the right dimension..let me add one more thing ....both china and America want to see Pakistan , politically and economically , integrated in the middle east... what's in it for them , I don't know... however , Pakistan is the only country where Chinese and American interests converge in keeping it stable.
This is true, and you know what sometimes everything becomes a negative by habit or by default.

It might be that this configuration actually makes Pakistan more functional

The Americans are done with strategic altruism with India, and consequently they might be thinking Pakistan needs to be supported.

The Chinese motives I personally believe do not lie, they definitely want Pakistan to be more economically productive and useful

But again I can't say I know the full picture or thinking or future possibilities
 
How often do we even have the debate about our prior ancestry amongst ourselves, it's only when people to the east wish to drag us into this literally weird and stupid discussion point.

That type of thing is only something of academic interest to a tiny minority of people, people and Nations tend to live in the present, as Muslims you live in the present, this is a spiritual and metaphysical difference.

you don't waste chunks of your life agonizing over bizarre and unknowable fantasies on other people's lineage.

This comes from the East.

More often then you realise, but our lot have been obsessed with religion for far too long, it's time to introduce balance. I was going to write an article or a long writeup on this topic, also addressing each objection or claim by the Indians, point by point, but aggression by Indian Moderator and stupidity especially by Pakistanis put me off. It's strange everyone has freedom on this forum except Pakistanis.
One Pakistani fool commented the Indus civilisation belongs to the Indians and some such comments, it's been a while.
 
More often then you realise, but our lot have been obsessed with religion for far too long, it's time to introduce balance. I was going to write an article or a long writeup on this topic, also addressing each objection or claim by the Indians, point by point, but aggression by Indian Moderator and stupidity especially by Pakistanis put me off. It's strange everyone has freedom on this forum except Pakistanis.
One Pakistani fool commented the Indus civilisation belongs to the Indians and some such comments, it's been a while.

Were Muslims

Islam means submission to the will of God

Muslim means one who submits to the will of God

If Muslims can't embrace our faith, then what's the point

Your barking up the wrong tree if your trying to connect us to the gibbering idol worshipping monkeys to the east
 
I can't say about others but let me just say I have no shame in accepting my ancestors were Hindus. BUT here is the difference. They were Kashmiri Pandit Hindus, not ordinary Hindus like rest of India and South Asia. They are the highest cast of Hindus. They do not associate with India culturally even if some plead political allegiance. It's extremely rare for them to marry outside their cast and that too with some ordinary Hindus from mainland India. You'll be surprised to know that they live like us. They eat red meat and follow similar traditions. You can make the case it's like Punjabi Hindus and Punjabi Muslims. Same ethnicity, different religion. However, in the case of Punjabi Hindus, especially the Khatri Hindus, most if not all were from West Punjab and after partition, they assimilated into mainstream Indian culture much more rapidly. Unlike the Pandits, the Punjabi Hindus were much more influential in business and Bollywood and that made them feel like celebrities and economically powerful in a much bigger market. So really in essence you have to look at some factors here. The cultural factor and the economic factor
In a nutshell , you are gora chita Aryan looking Hindu convert , racially superior to rest of the Hindu converts ....
 
In a nutshell , you are gora chita Aryan looking Hindu convert , racially superior to rest of the Hindu converts ....
You can read some autobiographies of British colonists who travelled extensively. They analyzed each race and region. This is what they said about each race:

Punjabis: Sturdy, agricultural, and loyal. - Ideal soldiers.
Pashtuns: Fierce and independent. - Seen as difficult to control but strong fighters
Baloch: Hardy, tribal, martial. - more agrarian and commercial
Kashmiris: Artisians, traders or intellectual
Sindhis: Traders, bankers, merchants (urban), industrious cultivators (rural)

Mainland India: Land of extremes. Heat, monsoons, disease and famine. British rule necessary to "improve"
 
I don't know how Bangladeshi high finance people will view this, probably the most interesting view outside of Pakistans
Bangladesh is firmly in the Indian camp, a member called sainthood I think wrote a comment short time ago about ganga and fluids, I thought and still think it was a bit harsh because it ignored certain realities but he was spot on in his logic.
I consider Bangladeshis equally as stupid as Pakistanis, since it's not the topic here so I won't dig deeper.
We are literary each others best friends, we are an actual family but both are too stupid to realise.
To put it in a context, if Pakistan's existence ever depended on a push of a button, Bangladeshis are the one nationality i would trust to make the right decision to save my country, I have not an ounce of doubt.
The problem is they're stupid, they don't realise what's good for them, which has resulted in this continued distance.

I don't know whether this new grouping will offer more flexibility away from Indian direct influence
This grouping is nothing more then a administrative exercise. Since we cannot close our eyes, it's worth being aware to ensure our interests are kept alive, whatever they may be.

This is causing a type of spiritual and psychological angst to those to the east that even I am surprised by
It's not surprising at all, without Pakistan that country would have disintegrated by now, we are the glue that holds them together. It's the hate, the Russians are coming.
Again, it's a much deeper discussion, but without Pakistan, all they have left is to hate each other, they do plenty of that already, although the outside world doesn't get to see much.

India is still in the process of nation building, nations do not just exist, they go through a process. All nations have followed a similar process suited to local conditions, India is still in that process, the only language that unites the country is English, a foreign language. And the Hindu agenda is the core part of that nation building agenda.

It can easily be argued Pakistan is a more successful nation state then any of our neighbours. The only thing which hides that reality is the lack of stability in our governance.

Salwar kameez was not a common dress at Pakistan's independence, there was lots of variety, today Salwar Kameez is part of our lives in every corner of the country.
Common dress is rare in the region. Afghanistan has it but it followed a different pathway, not as part of national identity. They refused to accept being called afghans when 10 years ago an attempt was made to introduce ID cards, all the ethnic groups refused to be called afghans, except the Pashtuns.

Despite a false image, Urdu has historical roots within the Indus region, but at independence only a small percentage could use Urdu in any practical way. But today Urdu is widely accepted second mother tongue. There's a new linguistic classification of father tongue, Urdu can be described as such because it is part of our nations cultural framework. That cannot be said of India, it's English.

There are other markers but it will become a much deeper discussion.
 
You can read some autobiographies of British colonists who travelled extensively. They analyzed each race and region. This is what they said about each race:

Punjabis: Sturdy, agricultural, and loyal. - Ideal soldiers.
Pashtuns: Fierce and independent. - Seen as difficult to control but strong fighters
Baloch: Hardy, tribal, martial. - more agrarian and commercial
Kashmiris: Artisians, traders or intellectual
Sindhis: Traders, bankers, merchants (urban), industrious cultivators (rural)

Mainland India: Land of extremes. Heat, monsoons, disease and famine. British rule necessary to "improve"
Haha 😂...if you insist on going down this road then let me throw in a cent ....I am from sudhan tribe of Azad Kashmir...we look down on the pundits and converts as hypocrite, deceitful and cowards.... let's stop this racial profiling , it's not healthy.
 
Were Muslims

Islam means submission to the will of God

Muslim means one who submits to the will of God

If Muslims can't embrace our faith, then what's the point

Your barking up the wrong tree if your trying to connect us to the gibbering idol worshipping monkeys to the east

I am an atheist, have been since I was a teenager. It means jack shyt to my identity as a Pakistani, or as a Muslim. But I also love my adopted homeland, the United Kingdom. Learn and understand, it's not difficult.
Religion has different facets, it is theological, cultural, legal and so on.

The point was and is to understand life, not rot memorise silly statements and repeat them to your grave, whilst crying about everything when you're alive.
Surely we can offer more.
 
Haha 😂...if you insist on going down this road then let me throw in a cent ....I am from sudhan tribe of Azad Kashmir...we look down on the pundits and converts as hypocrite, deceitful and cowards.... let's stop this racial profiling , it's not healthy.
Not my words but British words.... They ruled more than half the world. I'd say its quite accurate.

We may not be the best fighters but without us Pakistan would be just another Afghanistan.. Less than 2% of Pakistan yet we played the role of administration, development, and driving unity. From Allama Iqbal to whoever came to rule in Punjab. and federal government. Pakistan benefited like other races benefited Pakistan in other ways. Let's just stop accusing or offending each other. I'm simply pointing to view points of others and facts in the context of India
 
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I am an atheist, have been since I was a teenager. It means jack shyt to my identity as a Pakistani, or as a Muslim. But I also love my adopted homeland, the United Kingdom. Learn and understand, it's not difficult.
Religion has different facets, it is theological, cultural, legal and so on.

The point was and is to understand life, not rot memorise silly statements and repeat them to your grave, whilst crying about everything when you're alive.
Surely we can offer more.
Welcome to the club .... keep it in mind , atheists are considered unpatriotic and traitors of ummah in PDF eco chamber.
 
Forget about the argument of Pakistans geography location here for the moment . High percentage of us Pakistanis have physically, and in terms of looks have more in common with other Muslims particularly those from the Middle East. I’m not saying we are Arabs , Iranians or Afghans lol, majority of us Pakistanis got definitely nothing in common with Indians regardless of their ethnicity religion or location. If Pakistan had rightly used its native language Pashtun or Farsi language as an our national language Pakistani after 1947 would have been a lot more better closer to Muslim countries to the west.
 
I can't say about others but let me just say I have no shame in accepting my ancestors were Hindus. BUT here is the difference. They were Kashmiri Pandit Hindus, not ordinary Hindus like rest of India and South Asia. They are the highest cast of Hindus. They do not associate with India culturally even if some plead political allegiance. It's extremely rare for them to marry outside their cast and that too with some ordinary Hindus from mainland India. You'll be surprised to know that they live like us. They eat red meat and follow similar traditions. You can make the case it's like Punjabi Hindus and Punjabi Muslims. Same ethnicity, different religion. However, in the case of Punjabi Hindus, especially the Khatri Hindus, most if not all were from West Punjab and after partition, they assimilated into mainstream Indian culture much more rapidly. Unlike the Pandits, the Punjabi Hindus were much more influential in business and Bollywood and that made them feel like celebrities and economically powerful in a much bigger market. So really in essence you have to look at some factors here. The racial, cultural, and the economic factor. Religion has nothing to do with it.

High,Low, Right or Sideways - if you're a true descendant of Kashmiri Hindus you'll understand that there is nothing "highest"/"ordinary"/"put any label" - the articulation above points to your egotistical mindset - nothing else

More so, many members want to "trace" their lineage to a "group" which they seem to "love" - folks who take pride in something that is not earned but given - tragic state
 
I am an atheist, have been since I was a teenager. It means jack shyt to my identity as a Pakistani, or as a Muslim. But I also love my adopted homeland, the United Kingdom. Learn and understand, it's not difficult.
Religion has different facets, it is theological, cultural, legal and so on.

The point was and is to understand life, not rot memorise silly statements and repeat them to your grave, whilst crying about everything when you're alive.
Surely we can offer more.

I was born in the UK, I am seeing the living consequences of a society that has gradually lost its culture, faith, values, morality and the consequence it is having on the family, marriage, relationships, children and birth rate and ultimately identity

More then ever, I think it's vital we preserve our identity, faith, values and culture

We have the example of the Pahalavists as a atheistic, valueless, honourless people without morals, where they get lost in a bleached blonde white servitude and their women become whores for any men

Cultural identity in of itself is not enough to strengthen communities and this is where is see Islam as the guiding light for Pakistan
 

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