JF-17 PFX program

[Zarvan]

Azm is dead.

KAAN is looking to be a long term high end solution.

J-31 is looking to be a short to medium term immediate 5th gen stop gap until KAAN.

PFX is still a complete unknown, and I'm willing to bet it has more to do with keeping JF-17 Thunders lines in operation, rather than upgrading the thunder, or building a 5th gen replacement for the Thunder.

Even if it's keep JF 17 in production it would be a BLOCK 4 which would be basically a GRIPPEN E

 

[Ak01]

I wonder if the expertise can lead to a local AEW. With experience gained from Saab2000 erieye and radar development, I think it’s not farfetched to do it.

i think a PAF/TuAF joint development program would work. The TuAF nor us have a pressing need, so i could see this working, on technical grounds, on the actual human factor some babu somewhere will ruin it, but this is something both need to and can look into and it can work- though, we dont have anything to add to a Turkish program, they can add to ours as we lack in some areas, though, we do have the inputs and capabilities to add in parts.

Best thing to do woudl be to get PAC to conduct sea sultan conversions and gain experience doing major airframe modifications like Paramount SA did and go from there

 

[StormBreaker]

We are indicting J 31 soon. KAAN won't come before 2032. As for PFX it's our local fighter jet program. More details would be revealed soon in a ceremony of its inauguration. Design work has already begun on this project.

When is it?

 

[kaku]

How is PAF ahead of IAF in EW & BVR

UAV makes sense and PAF will remain ahead for atleast 1 decade.
PAF's AEW superiority will not last long India is working on inducting 12 AEW platform by 2032.
Radar for 1st Netra mk 2 is going to be delivered by 2026 (according to the manufacturer Astra Microwave)
@Oscar

Would you like to explain furthur? How IAF is behind in all this?
After Balakot, PAF had to deploy 2 Erieye in a single theater, to conduct C&C ops (1 was on standby) and seperately D-20 EW aircraft? Why? Why IAF confident to do ELINT, EW & C&C ops from single Netra Mk1 aircraft, Phalcon was in Punjab sector, and went above 40000 feet to map LFE? Devil lies in details.

Furthur, how IAF is behind in UAVs? IAF is indeed behind inducting new 4/4.5 gen aircrafts, especially against Block 52, whose only counter right now is Mirage-2000. But situation will improve with induction of Mk1A in numbers, and MKI UPG.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

PFX in my opinion is the indigenisation of JF-17 with flexibility to change power-plant and sensors from Russian/Chinese to Turkish and European origin. Some structural changes might occur and IRST might be added.

Where I am coming from, the supply chain challenges, underpowered power plant, end of Chinese leg of production line. And still a need for 3.5 -4.0 Gen a/c to keep the 450 aircraft strength up. Can’t fill them all up with US$100 million per pop birds.

It can packaged as new fighter or given a different name but the fact will remain that it will be indeginsation of JF-17
My 2c worth

 

[SaadH]

This is a fate I wouldn't even wish upon my worst enemy. State capture by low effort low intellect simple leeches.

I thought all that's wrong in Pakistan was due to IK???

 

[kambhakt]

How is PAF ahead of IAF in EW & BVR

UAV makes sense and PAF will remain ahead for atleast 1 decade.
PAF's AEW superiority will not last long India is working on inducting 12 AEW platform by 2032.
Radar for 1st Netra mk 2 is going to be delivered by 2026 (according to the manufacturer Astra Microwave)
@Oscar

At the moment the fact is that they are superior in AEW.

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

I thought all that's wrong in Pakistan was due to IK???

IK and his cronies are one of the leading causes

 

[Yasser76]

Would you like to explain furthur? How IAF is behind in all this?
After Balakot, PAF had to deploy 2 Erieye in a single theater, to conduct C&C ops (1 was on standby) and seperately D-20 EW aircraft? Why? Why IAF confident to do ELINT, EW & C&C ops from single Netra Mk1 aircraft, Phalcon was in Punjab sector, and went above 40000 feet to map LFE? Devil lies in details.

Furthur, how IAF is behind in UAVs? IAF is indeed behind inducting new 4/4.5 gen aircrafts, especially against Block 52, whose only counter right now is Mirage-2000. But situation will improve with induction of Mk1A in numbers, and MKI UPG.

If you read up on that day you will see the lack of AEW in numbers hampered the IAF. PAF struck when your single Neta to land back. Due to decent numbers PAF always had 1 Erireye in the air.

Devil does lie in the detail, with just 3 Phalcons and 3 Neta. From all accounts Phalcon was not involved at all.

Anyone with even a basic knowledge of aircraft will tell you the down time on 30 year old IL-76 4 jet engined soviet cargo planes is much much higher then a modern twin turboprop commuter plane (SAAB 2000). Take into account downtime and training IAF will struggle getting a Phalcon in the air for even 12 hours a day.

PAF with 10 Erieyes can pretty much keep 3 in the air constantly.

Balakot showed that despite some good equipment IAF was forced to used MIG-21s.

Mirage (even upgraded) is simply no match for the APG-68/AMRAAM combo and is outranged.

IAF situation may improve but that also goes for PAF with upcoming new inductions

UAV wise in sheer numbers and capability PAF has TB-2/Akinci/Wing Loon II combos as well as now Sharper 2 Block II. This is way ahead of IAF Searcher and Heron UAVs.

 

[Oscar]

Would you like to explain furthur? How IAF is behind in all this?
After Balakot, PAF had to deploy 2 Erieye in a single theater, to conduct C&C ops (1 was on standby) and seperately D-20 EW aircraft? Why? Why IAF confident to do ELINT, EW & C&C ops from single Netra Mk1 aircraft, Phalcon was in Punjab sector, and went above 40000 feet to map LFE? Devil lies in details.

Furthur, how IAF is behind in UAVs? IAF is indeed behind inducting new 4/4.5 gen aircrafts, especially against Block 52, whose only counter right now is Mirage-2000. But situation will improve with induction of Mk1A in numbers, and MKI UPG.

Its called redundancy - which the IAF did not have. What an odd way to twist it to assume the DA-20EW role means nothing on the Erieye?? It’s again redundant in assets - it’s foolish to want to to send an expensive AEW asset for offensive EW in a contested environment.. I certainly doubt the IAF thinks a HVA like the Netra is expendable??

There was no redundancy in the Netra - there was no operational spare once the two rotating had to be brought in.

 

[DDG-80]

Devil does lie in the detail, with just 3 Phalcons and 3 Netra.

Netra MK1 itself has demonstrated 475km+ in extended range mode

 

[Yasser76]

Its called redundancy - which the IAF did not have. What an odd way to twist it to assume the DA-20EW role means nothing on the Erieye?? It’s again redundant in assets - it’s foolish to want to to send an expensive AEW asset for offensive EW in a contested environment.. I certainly doubt the IAF thinks a HVA like the Netra is expendable??

There was no redundancy in the Netra - there was no operational spare once the two rotating had to be brought in.

Spot on.

RAF have stated that their 3 brand new E-7s based on a modern twin engined Boeing 737 airframe cannot give them one constantly in the air, so very likely IAF will struggle with 30 year old IL-76. Was a poor choice of airframe. Also radar on the Phalcon now 30 years old, with no modernisation. IAF doing the right thing now and focusing on quickly getting more NETAs in service. Surprised Phalcon has not been retired.

 

[DDG-80]

Mirage (even upgraded) is simply no match for the APG-68/AMRAAM combo and is outranged.

Only 18 PAF F16 Block 52+ is equipped with APG 68 radar whereas all 50+ Mirage 2000 fighters of IAF is equipped with RDY-3 radar.
Post finalisation of the contract for the Astra Mark 1, the DRDO is now concentrating on development/testing of the Astra Mark 2, equipped with a dual-thrust pulsed rocket motor, which will enable swift acceleration to high speeds in the ‘boost’ phase followed by steady controlled flight in the ‘sustain’ phase, thus improving accuracy and enhancing effective range to 160 Km.

 

[Yasser76]

Netra MK1 itself has demonstrated 475km+ in extended range mode
View attachment 29510

Erieye ER has 550km range, your point?

 

[Yasser76]

Only 18 PAF F16 Block 52+ is equipped with APG 68 radar whereas all 50+ Mirage 2000 fighters of IAF is equipped with RDY-3 radar.
Post finalisation of the contract for the Astra Mark 1, the DRDO is now concentrating on development/testing of the Astra Mark 2, equipped with a dual-thrust pulsed rocket motor, which will enable swift acceleration to high speeds in the ‘boost’ phase followed by steady controlled flight in the ‘sustain’ phase, thus improving accuracy and enhancing effective range to 160 Km.

Chat about the Astra once in service. PAF also has new BVR missiles in pipeline.

F-16 MLUS have the APG-66V2, very similar in perfomance to APG-68, and PAGF has around 55 of these, again, these are mated with the AMRAAM. Mirage 2000 is simply out gunned and out ranged here, even Greeks are getting rid of theirs as is Qatar and UAE. Simply not capable enough against modern fighters