Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Pakistan Space Agency]

How much did those 13,000 strikes cost you and what did those 13000 strikes do for you?

Obviously nothing.

When in the History of humanity has a Country won a war decisively, only for it to go sit down with the country it decimated to hammer out a MOU and give financial concession to the loser?

What concessions?

The Americans blocked Iran's energy exports (which were not before the conflict), and now they are going to allow iran to export again.

In the meanwhile, Iran is asking the Americans to pay for war damages. The Americans are not asking for any war damages.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Lie.
The goal of the campaign was not 13.000 bomb sorties.

It were changing the regime.
Destroy the ballistic missile force.
Destroy the nuclear infraestructure remaining.
Stop Iranian influence over allies.

No one of them was achieved.

Even Israelí opposition is talking about "catastrophe".

The goal was just to bomb Iran as much as possible.

When is the new Ayatollah going to come out of his hiding to celebrate the Great Victory?

 

[krash]

If the global bully does not need any excuses and will interfere where it wants, then why are you telling us not to give it excuses in the first place ? Doesn't that sound contradictory ?

I've explained this repeatedly. It's the basic concept of keeping your head low and building, as much as you can for as long as you can or as long as you need. How is this concept difficult for anyone to grasp? I can't be expected to repeat this answer again.

Another major flaw in your argument is that the US has been laser focused on the region because of oil and Israel. THAT is the reason it has subjected the region to endless wars, coups, terrorism, autocracy and blockades for the last 70 years. Why would the US just suddenly go elsewhere and leave you to grow in peace ?

When you give the bastard enough of what it wants then it will leave you alone-er. If not as much as Turkey then at least as much as Pakistan.

It is your arguments that are only valid in a vacuum and bereft of ground realities. "Poking the bear", yeah right as if Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Yemen had ever launched an attack on America.

Again, I've mentioned this very basic understanding before and will not repeat it again after this. Not poking does not ensure being left alone but gives you a chance at it. Poking ensures you have no chance.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

And it did it all with the other world bully standing right besides it. It clearly had the means to do what it did evident by the US' lack of response. Does Iran or any other Muslim country have these luxuries? We are bombed without a second thought. Do you think we have those means?

During that war... China had men... human wave attacks ... there was no parity in weapons. It is the same today... however today Iran has drones and missiles. It has embraced asymmetry and didn't even try conventional parity. That along with its geography provide a formidable challenge for any adversary or invaders. The onus is always on the invaders to achieve the set out goals. And prolonging the conflict was Iranian goal to get into a long-term slug fest. Iran will never invade another state regionally let alone on the other side of the world... so this is an imperial war by default. It's goals are imperial and it's geostategic goals are set in making the colonial project viable.... read "A Clean Break"...

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.dougfeith.com/docs/Clean_Break.pdf

The neocon project.

I pray it happens before you envision it. But in case it doesn't, do we have another plan?

For zion there is no back up plan... not yet at least... the US can retrench and faces no imminent threat.

 

[Trailer23]

Bottomline - Unless US/Trump order !srael to stop, I just don't see a Peace Deal.

Everyone will be onboard.

Iran will probably give into (most) of the US demands, but...

...eventually the Jews are gonna play Spoiler, pull a stunt & shift the blame on Hamas. And we're all back to square 1.

 

[Watandar]

You haven't been looking. The Gulfies, Turkey, India, and even Pakistan in certain instances, such as nuclear weapons, have had reasonable success.

The Gulfies are dictatorships whose relevance is oil and who were thrown to the wolves in this war. Pakistan is another dictatorship that has ruined itself engaging in proxy wars for the sake of Arabs/America. India isn't part of the region nor relevant to this particular discussion. Is that "reasonable success" for the people of the region ?

Tell that to the Chinese who jumped into both with their socks on.

Chinese were providing support to Korea and Vietnam, just like they are now to Russia and Iran. They were not directly involved in those conflicts and neither were they subjected to 70 years of American attacks. The comparison is invalid.

Magically didn't apply to the Iranians or everyone else overtly opposing the US.

This makes no sense at all.

Yeah, that was exactly as enjoyable as I expected it to be

Glad you are enjoying your arguments being shred to pieces.

Next time leave the desperate sectarian BS aside. I'm beyond it and don't care if you aren't. Your religion, sect, favorite ice-cream have no baring on me or my arguments.

Your arguments are valid only in a vacuum. They are bereft of real world inputs and outputs.

 

[Prophecy]

The way I see it. Iran intention from the begining to enrich uranium a step below weapons grade was never to make bomb but to show capability and use it to get rid of sanctions.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

The Americans blocked Iran's energy exports (which were not before the conflict), and now they are going to allow iran to export again.

Iranian oil has been sanctioned since 1996 by an act. Iran continues to sell both before during and after. You should instead talk volumes... pre war volumes were 2 million bpd and they increased by a bit during war... Iran still managed to sell oil during the blockade ... numbers are not fully known but Chinese refineries kept receiving oil under Malaysian blend.
However, US oil reserves have dropped to less than half their capacity during this time ... a deal now literally saved hitting the bottom of the barrel! You may not drive but those who do can tell the difference... they're paying for with their wallets... the whole world did!

In the meanwhile, Iran is asking the Americans to pay for war damages. The Americans are not asking for any war damages.

Add, how many times Iran walked away from the table as well... that half sentence only reflects heartburn.

 

[Aziqbal]

seems like Iran has taught US + Israel a lesson that will last a lifetime

how the hell did they manage this

 

[VCheng]

The way I see it. Iran intention from the begining to enrich uranium a step below weapons grade was never to make bomb but to show capability and use it to get rid of sanctions.

We will know just how well that strategy worked once the terms are made known.

 

[Master Chief]

I've explained this repeatedly. It's the basic concept of keeping your head low and building, as much as you can for as long as you can or as long as you need. How is this concept difficult for anyone to grasp? I can't be expected to repeat this answer again.



When you give the bastard enough of what it wants then it will leave you alone-er. If not as much as Turkey then at least as much as Pakistan.



Again, I've mentioned this very basic understanding before and will not repeat it again after this. Not poking does not ensure being left alone but gives you a chance at it. Poking ensures you have no chance.

You're suggesting a pragmatic approach, which is of course perfectly sensible and even ideal. The only caveat is that circumstances sometimes, even oftentimes, do not allow for an ideal entry into war. In my opinion, the single biggest strategic error leading into this current war was actually Hamas's October 2023 operation - it was doomed to fail and cause far reaching ramifications. Iran's hand was forced by the events that followed.

With regards to your general strategy, I would go one step further. Even when strong, feign weakness. Keep feigning weakness until one's strength AND TACTICS are in fact overwhelming. Be as secretive as possible.

If this peace deal goes ahead, a thorough post-mortem on the belligerents' military and political performances would be of benefit, as all parties made substantial mistakes/miscalculations.

 

[Kyussis]

Obviously nothing.

Outside of the Regular Navy's conventional fleet(wich was never intended for war with U.S) they hit a lot of decoys and Civilians.

What concessions?

The Americans blocked Iran's energy exports (which were not before the conflict), and now they are going to allow iran to export again.

In the meanwhile, Iran is asking the Americans to pay for war damages. The Americans are not asking for any war damages.

Since when do winners pay for the loser's war damages?

 

[VCheng]

You're suggesting a pragmatic approach, which is of course perfectly sensible and even ideal. The only caveat is that circumstances sometimes, even oftentimes, do not allow for an ideal entry into war. In my opinion, the single biggest strategic error leading into this current war was actually Hamas's October 2023 operation - it was doomed to fail and cause far reaching ramifications. Iran's hand was forced by the events that followed.

With regards to your general strategy, I would go one step further. Even when strong, feign weakness. Keep feigning weakness until one's strength AND TACTICS are in fact overwhelming. Be as secretive as possible.

If this peace deal goes ahead, a thorough post-mortem on the belligerents' military and political performances would be of benefit, as all parties made substantial mistakes/miscalculations.

With religiously motivated roots, even idealistic policies may work, until one runs into an enemy who remains utterly calm and rational, just waiting for the right time to strike.

Wishing for the ultimate glory of martyrdom is great, but it does not win the war when the enemy is only too happy to help you achieve that wish as quickly as possible.

 

[Master Chief]

With religiously motivated roots, even idealistic policies may work, until one runs into an enemy who remains utterly calm and rational, just waiting for the right time to strike.

Wishing for the ultimate glory of martyrdom is great, but it does not win the war when the enemy is only too happy to help you achieve that wish as quickly as possible.

One of the best from George S Patton:

"No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country"

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

The goal was just to bomb Iran as much as possible.

When is the new Ayatollah going to come out of his hiding to celebrate the Great Victory?

Taking security precautionary steps doesn't mean he is in hiding. He is just not going to be complacent in his security and that of his close associates.

But then the question is when will Satanyahu come out of his bunker?