Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[VCheng]

I proved my point anyway

ROFL. What you said about what I was saying about anyone being more or less moral than anyone was a LIE, so that is the only point to be made.

Geopolitics has no concept of morality. And all the current players in this war - on topic - are playing it according to their own national interests only, equally.

USA is no more evil than Iran is noble. Geopolitics is geopolitics. And war is merely geopolitics by other means, including the present war.

I just hope it ends once the MoU and the final settlement is done in 60 days. I personally find war to be abohrrent.

 

[VCheng]

Dollar is not influence of US in the region.
Right now US needs a MOU for reopening the Straits. And more worrying, the toll was working and Irán was getting a good money, and by the way not dollars.

Influence or not, the fear of Iranian subversion helps drive sales of western military equipment by the billions to all others in the region. So Iran is helpful in that sense, which is what I said.

Let us wait for the terms of the MoU before talking about tolls and the revenue thereof. If Iran gets them, it will be a huge achievement for Iran.

 

[Watandar]

What does this paragraph mean in this otherwise very good article ?

"Tehran recently announced the creation of a “new security belt” of the axis and claimed a new doctrine of “unified resistance front,” where any attack on the axis would trigger a coordinated response by all Axis members."

How Iran gained the strategic upper hand in the war with the US and Israel

Tehran has exploited its asymmetric warfare capabilities to strengthen its position.

theconversation.com

 

[VCheng]

Imagine training an AI with just VCheng style retorts to all questions ever asked.

Two or three lines of programming tops.

Imagine staying on topic.

================================

Geopolitical strategies are always in the pursuit of national interests, and everyone must follow the same rules, no matter what they may claim. ALL of them.

This is exactly what is happening now in the context of this war as well. Once the terms are known is when it would be appropriate to talk about who gained what advantage, and at what cost.

Of course, there will be lots of noisy claims made by both sides to prove to their own audiences that they are the victorious party. The truth probably will lie somewhere in the middle. We do not know yet.

 

[BHAN85]

The question now is what will do Israel to blow up the deal.

Attack lebanon was not enough last time.

 

[krash]

Korean war... they warned the US several times... and then jumped in... just like Iran today they Gen MacArthur wanted to use NUKES in Korea after the Chinese entry.

There are times when you can keep your head down... Iranian internal politics has been meddled by both Brits and then the US ... I don't know why but the term blowback was coined after Mossadegh was sacked in a coup... guess what the pent up anger removed the installed Shah. They were not happy with the US because their resources were not for their own benefit... and ever since the US made sure by the sanctions that they cannot use their own money... their own resources... their own scientists... their own infrastructure... their own uranium... which is legal under international law... nothing is for Iran... the head you want bowed is primed for an axe... not to move along!

I've repeated this about a dozen times here. The head you pretend is not bowed is in fact rubbing in dirt, proud but still in dirt. The global bully will interfere everywhere and every time it deems fit for its purpose. It is your responsibility to not give it the excuses to do so until you actually can stand up to it or have no other choice. To stand up, you need to grow, to grow you need peace, for peace you need the bully to look elsewhere just long enough. The Chinese have been doing exactly that. The Korean War is an exact example of when they could and how much they could. In fact, and very unexpectedly, Pakistan did as well in acquiring its nuclear weapons. These fantastical pseudo-righteous stances are only good within the limits of drawing rooms. What have they yielded in the past 200 years? We've only sunk further. If you keep poking the global bully it will not let you make anything of yourself, see then if moral arguments can come to your defense.

 

[Shags101]

yeah and I am also at fault for taking the bait. Back to topic.

That’s why I’m moving on he very much not a neutral observer who calls out both sides he’s just another boring guy at least I call out those who are toxic on both sides

 

[VCheng]

I've repeated this about a dozen times here. The head you pretend is not bowed is in fact rubbing in dirt. The global bully will interfere everywhere and every time it deems fit for its purpose. It is your responsibility to not give it the excuses to do so until you actually can stand up to it or have no other choice. To stand up, you need to grow, to grow you need peace, for peace you need the bully to look elsewhere just long enough. The Chinese have been doing exactly that. The Korean War is an exact example of when they could and how much they could. In fact, and very unexpectedly, Pakistan did as well in acquiring its nuclear weapons. These fantastical pseudo-righteous stances are only good within the limits of drawing rooms. What have they yielded in the past 200 years? We've only sunk further. If you keep poking the global bully it will not let you make anything of yourself, see then if moral arguments can come to your defense.

Golden Advice. Thank you for saying it directly.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

I've repeated this about a dozen times here. The head you pretend is not bowed is in fact rubbing in dirt. The global bully will interfere everywhere and every time it deems fit for its purpose. It is your responsibility to not give it the excuses to do so until you actually can stand up to it or have no other choice. To stand up, you need to grow, to grow you need peace, for peace you need the bully to look elsewhere just long enough. The Chinese have been doing exactly that. The Korean War is an exact example of when they could and how much they could. In fact, and very unexpectedly, Pakistan did as well in acquiring its nuclear weapons. These fantastical pseudo-righteous stances are only good within the limits of drawing rooms. What have they yielded in the past 200 years? We've only sunk further. If you keep poking the global bully it will not let you make anything of yourself, see then if moral arguments can come to your defense.

Do you know when China became a nuclear power? 1964. Korean war ended in 1953. China didn't wait till it became nuclear power to protect what it assumed were it's core interests. China didn't wait the US to establish diplomatic relations either... full relations didn't establish till 1979. Before Nixon, US didn't even recognize PRC as legitimate government of China... that was ROC.
US will leave mideast and bully now is zion. And zion is it's own worst enemy helping isolate it globally... by their own chosen hubris. For those who want the hammer to drop on their head before they act... we're actually living past that drop on the head!

 

[krash]

I wonder why not a single country in the region is able to do this , is that because this is pie in the sky thinking ? The US/Israel are the instigators of the conflicts in the wider region and will continue until they are exhausted or defeated.

You haven't been looking. The Gulfies, Turkey, India, and even Pakistan in many instances (nuclear weapons, China, Afghanistan) have had reasonable success.

Maybe use Google yourself and realize the target of Korea and Vietnam wars were....Korea and Vietnam. China was not getting bombed or blockaded or coup'd , instead it has received trillions worth of Western money and tech transfer due to policy of Globalization.

Tell that to the Chinese who jumped into both with their socks on.

Yes it was the mistaken policy of Globalization that the US now realizes was bad for it.

Magically didn't apply to the Iranians or everyone else overtly opposing the US.

Sulah Hudaibiyah...literally same talking points. Which Salafi channel do you copy paste from ?

You people always come out at this time of the year with the same message don't you ? Just in different ways. Don't try to disguise yourself using geopolitics.

Yeah, that was exactly as enjoyable as I expected it to be.

Next time leave the desperate sectarian BS aside. I'm beyond it and don't care if you aren't. Your religion, sect, favorite ice-cream have no baring on me or my arguments.

 

[PakAl]

LOL. Let us wait to see the terms of the deal first.

Usa is saying the terms of the deal favour them, Iran will never be able to build nukes, their facilities will be under inspectors control, enrichment will be taken out of Iran, Hormuz opened as normal. No gurantees on Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza and Usa will not withdraw from the middleeast, yes their build up will be reduced since their is no need for it anymore, Iran first and 2nd tier leadership all killed, Iranian funds will be unfrozen since they belong to Iran and Usa wants 300B to be given to Iran by GCC which i cannot see it happening, Strait of Hormuz will be toll free, maybe Iran will charge small fee for environmental reasons as alleged. Yes good idea wait till terms are released otherwise everyone is celebrating too early.

 

[VCheng]

Yes good idea wait till terms are released otherwise everyone is celebrating too early.

Exactly what I have been saying all along.

+1.

 

[krash]

Do you know when China became a nuclear power? 1964. Korean war ended in 1953. China didn't wait till it became nuclear power to protect what it assumed were it's core interests. China didn't wait the US to establish diplomatic relations either... full relations didn't establish till 1979. Before Nixon, US didn't even recognize PRC as legitimate government of China... that was ROC.

And it did it all with the other world bully standing right besides it. It clearly had the means to do what it did evident by the US' lack of response. Does Iran or any other Muslim country have these luxuries? We are bombed without a second thought. Do you think we have those means?

US will leave mideast and bully now is zion. And zion is it's own worst enemy helping isolate it globally... by their own chosen hubris. For those who want the hammer to drop on their head before they act... we're actually living past that drop on the head!

I pray it happens before you envision it. But in case it doesn't, do we have another plan?

 

[BHAN85]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-military-preparing-to-withdraw-20-of-refueling-aircraft-from-ben-gurion-airport-reports/3968527

Why not 100%?

 

[Watandar]

I've repeated this about a dozen times here. The head you pretend is not bowed is in fact rubbing in dirt. The global bully will interfere everywhere and every time it deems fit for its purpose. It is your responsibility to not give it the excuses to do so until you actually can stand up to it or have no other choice. To stand up, you need to grow, to grow you need peace, for peace you need the bully to look elsewhere just long enough. The Chinese have been doing exactly that. The Korean War is an exact example of when they could and how much they could. In fact, and very unexpectedly, Pakistan did as well in acquiring its nuclear weapons. These fantastical pseudo-righteous stances are only good within the limits of drawing rooms. What have they yielded in the past 200 years? We've only sunk further. If you keep poking the global bully it will not let you make anything of yourself, see then if moral arguments can come to your defense.

If the global bully does not need any excuses and will interfere where it wants, then why are you telling us not to give it excuses in the first place ? Doesn't that sound contradictory ?

Another major flaw in your argument is that the US has been laser focused on the region because of oil and Israel. THAT is the reason it has subjected the region to endless wars, coups, terrorism, autocracy and blockades for the last 70 years. Why would the US just suddenly go elsewhere and leave you to grow in peace ?

It is your arguments that are only valid in a vacuum and bereft of ground realities. "Poking the bear", yeah right as if Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Yemen had ever launched an attack on America.