Turkish Naval Programs

[Death_Zone]

Yes but the AUKUS fleet is going to grow

UK has a formidable sub surface force with the current Astute class

And incoming Dreadnaught class

How many Astute are on sea ? You have your answer. On paper it is a beautifull force, but in reality you are short. It's sad, really, even from a french point of view as we are strong ally and friends.

AUKUS ? We will have a lot of time to speak about AUKUS. My bet is that at the end Australia will have 8 second hand Virginia, none of them built in Australia.
Why ? cost, lack of specilized manpower, delay in nuclear reactor supply, etc...

 

[MMM-E]

TCG IZMIR ( F-516 ) The 2nd Frigate of ISTIF class will be delivered to the Turkish Navy in 2026

 

[hyperman]

But they have a SSN project in mind.
(And I hope France and Italy can work together on it).

I very much doubt the Italians will go for an SSN. #1 they have banned nuclear reactors from their country and have no nuclear experts because that capacity atrophied. #2 Italy does not have land like Islands far away and doesn't really have a role or ambition outside the Mediterranean and the codeveloped Subs with Germany do the job.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

How many Astute are on sea ? You have your answer. On paper it is a beautifull force, but in reality you are short. It's sad, really, even from a french point of view as we are strong ally and friends.

AUKUS ? We will have a lot of time to speak about AUKUS. My bet is that at the end Australia will have 8 second hand Virginia, none of them built in Australia.
Why ? cost, lack of specilized manpower, delay in nuclear reactor supply, etc...

Astute is 7000 tons, and Suffren is 5000 tons.

Both UK and France have relatively small sized SSN in small number.

The US is moving to the 10,000 tons Virginia Block V and the future SSN-X, Russia got the 13,000 tons Yasen, and China is also starting to mass produce the 12,000 tons Type 095A.

The future naval superpower needs those 10,000 tons class SSN in large number.

 

[Death_Zone]

I very much doubt the Italians will go for an SSN. #1 they have banned nuclear reactors from their country and have no nuclear experts because that capacity atrophied. #2 Italy does not have land like Islands far away and doesn't really have a role or ambition outside the Mediterranean and the codeveloped Subs with Germany do the job.

It's not exactly that : by referendum they choose not to rely on nuclear electricity. It's not a permanent ban.
They are planning a nuc carrier, and SSN :

La marine italienne envisage de se doter d'un porte-avions à propulsion nucléaire - Zone Militaire

Au début du XXe siècle, la marine italienne prit très vite la mesure des possibilités que l'aviation naissante pouvait lui offrir. Ainsi, en 1909, alors

www.opex360.com

"A priori, la Marina Militare n’entend pas en rester là. En effet, dans un entretien publié par le Corriere Della Sera, le 8 juin, son chef d’état-major, l’amiral Enrico Credendino a indiqué qu’elle envisageait de lancer un projet de porte-avions à propulsion nucléaire.

« La Marine a un projet budgétaire pour une période allant jusqu’en 2040. Elle envisage un porte-avions à propulsion nucléaire, mais aussi des drones de tout type. […] Nos soixante navires seront tous dotés de vastes espaces pour embarquer des drones. Le Trieste, notre unité la plus récente, embarque des chasseurs et des drones de toutes les tailles », a en effet affirmé l’amiral Credendino, sans entrer dans les détails.
...
Le constructeur naval Fincantieri est d’ailleurs impliqué dans ce projet. Son PDG, Pierroberto Folgiero, a ainsi évoqué l’éventualité d’installer de « petits réacteurs nucléaires » à bord de sous-marins, de porte-avions, de croiseurs et « même de frégates »."

=

It appears the Marina Militare does not intend to stop there. In an interview published by *Corriere della Sera* on June 8, its Chief of Staff, Admiral Enrico Credendino, indicated that the Navy is considering launching a project for a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.
"The Navy has a budgetary plan extending to 2040. It is considering a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, as well as drones of all types. [...] All sixty of our ships will be equipped with ample space to carry drones. The *Trieste*, our newest vessel, carries both fighter jets and drones of various sizes," Admiral Credendino stated, without going into further detail.
...
Shipbuilder Fincantieri is, in fact, involved in this project. Its CEO, Pierroberto Folgiero, has discussed the possibility of installing "small nuclear reactors" on board submarines, aircraft carriers, cruisers, and "even frigates."

 

[Death_Zone]

Astute is 7000 tons, and Suffren is 5000 tons.

Both UK and France have relatively small sized SSN in small number.

The US is moving to the 10,000 tons Virginia Block V and the future SSN-X, Russia got the 13,000 tons Yasen, and China is also starting to mass produce the 12,000 tons Type 095A.

The future naval superpower needs those 10,000 tons class SSN in large number.

Yes, Astute is a 7000 tons SSN, but remain mainly at port where the 5000 tons Suffren is at sea!

UK and France are not super powers ! We can't compete with USA or China.

What made thesize & weight of a sub? mainly the quantity and versatility of weapons inside. Suffren don't have VLS, and only a limited quantity of torpedoes, SCALP, Exocet (24 in total). But how many torpedoes were fired by a SSN since Nautilus SSN ? 2 by HMS Conqueror to sunk General Belgrano (Falklands war), 1 by the US SSN that sank the iranian frigate, and ?
But sure, a 10000 tons SSN with VLS and 30+ torpedoes is better on paper.

 

[Death_Zone]

TCG IZMIR ( F-516 ) The 2nd Frigate of ISTIF class will be delivered to the Turkish Navy in 2026
View attachment 212648

Good looking vessel ! really.

 

[MMM-E]

Good looking vessel ! really.

What caught my attention is that while the first ISTIF Frigate, TCG ISTANBUL (F-515), used the tactical version of the MIDLAS VLS ( 6,7 m ) , the second ISTIF Frigate TCG IZMIR ( F-516 ) switched to the strike version of the MIDLAS VLS ( 8 m )

It is clear that once it transitions to quad-pack capability in the future, ISTIF Frigates can be used in all air defense missions

16 cells VLS
8 X 4 HISAR : 32 medium range SAMs
8 x SIPER-4 : 8 anti-Ballistic Missiles


The SIPER-2 missile is 6.3 meters long, which means that since the SIPER-4 will be larger, the MIDLAS VLS strike model was chosen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1000 km GEZGIN cruise Missile is around 6.5 meters long, but it doesn't make sense to compromise air defense on a 16-cell VLS Frigate by adding strike missiles

16 cells VLS
8 X 4 HISAR : 32 medium range SAMs
8 x GEZGIN : 8 land attack Cruise Missiles

 

[Pokemonte13]

What caught my attention is that while the first ISTIF Frigate, TCG ISTANBUL (F-515), used the tactical version of the MIDLAS VLS ( 6,7 m ) , the second ISTIF Frigate TCG IZMIR ( F-516 ) switched to the strike version of the MIDLAS VLS ( 8 m )

It is clear that once it transitions to quad-pack capability in the future, ISTIF Frigates can be used in all air defense missions

16 cells VLS
8 X 4 HISAR : 32 medium range SAMs
8 x SIPER-4 : 8 anti-Ballistic Missiles


The SIPER-2 missile is 6.3 meters long, which means that since the SIPER-4 will be larger, the MIDLAS VLS strike model was chosen

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1000 km GEZGIN cruise Missile is around 6.5 meters long, but it doesn't make sense to compromise air defense on a 16-cell VLS Frigate by adding strike missiles

16 cells VLS
8 X 4 HISAR : 32 medium range SAMs
8 x GEZGIN : 8 land attack Cruise Missiles

I class can carry siper block 4 but it wont be able to guide them.

 

[MMM-E]

I class can carry siper block 4 but it wont be able to guide them.

ISTIF class Frigate will work together with ADVENT + HAKIM to use its entire land, air and sea radar network of Turkiye to guide the SIPER Block-4 via data links

This concept forms the core foundation of Türkiye's network-centric warfare doctrine

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes, Astute is a 7000 tons SSN, but remain mainly at port where the 5000 tons Suffren is at sea!

UK and France are not super powers ! We can't compete with USA or China.

What made thesize & weight of a sub? mainly the quantity and versatility of weapons inside. Suffren don't have VLS, and only a limited quantity of torpedoes, SCALP, Exocet (24 in total). But how many torpedoes were fired by a SSN since Nautilus SSN ? 2 by HMS Conqueror to sunk General Belgrano (Falklands war), 1 by the US SSN that sank the iranian frigate, and ?
But sure, a 10000 tons SSN with VLS and 30+ torpedoes is better on paper.

Actually, Suffren is also technologically very advanced in design, only its size has limitation.

And against countries with weak navy and negligible submarine fleet like Argentina and Iran should be suffice.