Who Created Harappan / Indus Valley Civilisation? | How Did It End? | Samvaad With Devdutt Pattanaik

[Vikramaditya1]

I'm talking about the naming of "India".

Yeah us.

And yes it is true, as far as we know, that the Persians and their Greek subjects derived the nomenclature from the Sanskrit for a specific river but guess what? It ONLY applies to that river, even in your own sacred texts. These texts do not refer to an actual continuous political entity but rather a hopeful vision of what Bharat should be. Clearly, apart from briefly under Ashoka, these disparate regions were never unified in reality. Even if they were, why would you accept calling it India, after only ONE of the rivers mentioned in your script?

Says you. The people who used that term didn't limit it, also Gandhara still has Indus flowing that in itself defeats your argument. Why not call em India. And again, why dwell so much on the Sanskrit nomenclature when the name is itself ultimately derived from Sanskrit? If I'm named Varuna, the fact that someone pronounces or adapts my name differently doesn't somehow mean I'm no longer the Varuna. If it's convenient I adopt that name too.

Tell me, what do ancient Sanskrit texts refer to the WHOLE subcontinent as, or even coterminous Bharat? Is it "India" or is it something else??

It's in the Indian constitution itself, India that is Bharat.

"INDIA" is beyond all doubt an exonym, bequeathed unto the region of the Indus specifically by foreigners who used the word for ONE of the rivers identified in your scriptures.

So what if we adopted that exonym. It's afterall our name. It has been for thousands of years.

 

[Vikramaditya1]

You guys aren’t the only “Hindus.” The word itself comes from Sindhu and originally referred to the people of the Indus, long before it became the religious identity you use it for today.

Us being Muslim doesn’t magically erase where we come from or our ancestry. Again, Islam is a religion, not a race or a bloodline. Our ancestors didn’t suddenly stop being people of the Indus because their descendants became Muslim.

Not that hard to connect the dots.

Congratulations, you've rediscovered my argument. Islam is a religion, not an ancestry. Pakistani Muslims didn't become Arabs by converting to Islam. Likewise, Steppe ancestry doesn't turn an Indian Hindu into a Steppe nomad, and Indo-Iranian antecedents don't relocate the historical development of Hindu traditions out of South Asia. Also, you're now defending your connection to Sindhu the Sanskrit word from which Hindu itself derives. Welcome aboard.
You know who else says what you said. The RSS and who base their Akhand Bharat on similar wording to yours. Lol!

 

[r3alist]

Tipu giving choice between convert and death is not freemarket of ideas

Suddenly you change your time periods lol


Tipu sultan came when ..... So it's irrelevant , 700 to 1700......



The next millennia can be spent going over your historical losses, in the free market of ideas, war, technology, connection with god....you have made a national pass time out of it, it should be kept within India

So therefore what's the ivc to you in this context? It's not historical heritage but desperate imagined historical rebalancing

 

[Vikramaditya1]

Suddenly you change your time periods lol


Tipu sultan came when ..... So it's irrelevant , 700 to 1700......



The next millennia can be spent going over your historical losses, in the free market of ideas, war, technology, connection with god....you have made a national pass time out of it, it should be kept within India

So therefore what's the ivc to you in this context? It's not historical heritage but desperate imagined historical rebalancing

I didn't, you asked for an info I gave it to you, you said Keralites decided to become Muslims I told you how. 700 AD and later migrants were traders from the Middle East. Some settled long term. They weren't really into proselytising but more into setting up trading outposts. That's why these towns still have a "different bit of Muslims, Christians (and Jews, though left for Israel)".

The historical loses you're talking about is your projection also because you have no idea how the politics in the state is, if you put Kerala Muslims in Pakistan you guys will lynch them for blasphemy that's all I'm gonna say for now. The future you said is not the future you think it is.

As for IVC, I have gone over about it more than enough at this point. So far you haven't brought any compelling argument about the ending, it's the usual invasion - converaion trope without any evidence.

 

[r3alist]

didn't, you asked for an info I gave it to you, you said Keralites decided to become Muslims

No I stated what happened in 7th century

Islam was an attractive powerful belief.

The historical loses you're talking about is your projection

this thread is another historical loss, in many ways

because it's not your history, what you tried to steal is now being corrected.

The thief has realised the game is up.

So far you haven't brought any compelling argument

For the Indian mind it's an argument, for the rest it's just historical enquiry.
Yes then leave the thread on that basis.