Makkah Defence Alliance: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[Neojinnah]

So you want to dissolve the Pakistani state or something?

you are incoherent. In one instance you say,

"But any Pakistani who thinks Pakistan can survive as an independent nation constantly fighting to preserve its Eastern and Western borders is delusional. It's unsustainable. "

But in the next breathe you say.

"The Afghan Pashtun people will never stop pursuing an end to the Durand Line b/c it is an artificial border imposed upon the Pashtun locals of the region by a colonial power."

you are saying that a constant struggle is unsustainable, then you say they will never accept it, i.e. fight you till eternity, and that fighting is unsustainable. So in essence you are saying that Pakistan will collapse or that it should collapse so as to end the conflict.

Both things can be true.

It also applies to Afghan Pashtuns. They can spend the next 1000 years fighting for the end of the Durand Line (if it lasts that long). But it will punish them and destroy their country (as it as already done). The same goes for Pakistan. It is an unsustainable conflict which will one day completely ruin the country. But that doesn't mean people will continue trying to fight it.

 

[hyperman]

Forcing a settlement on the Durand Line would be about as effective as the Simla Agreement which India was able to impose on Pakistan after the 1971 war.

You think the Armenians have accepted the current border between Turkey and Armenia mentally? You don't need that, what you need is a secure border and a status quo, one that the adversary signs to legally, even if it doesn't accept it mentally.

 

[hyperman]

Both things can be true.

It also applies to Afghan Pashtuns. They can spend the next 1000 years fighting for the end of the Durand Line (if it lasts that long). But it will punish them and destroy their country (as it as already done). The same goes for Pakistan. It is an unsustainable conflict which will one day completely ruin the country. But that doesn't mean people will continue trying to fight it.

You make no sense because you aren't really presenting any solutions or conclusions/end.

 

[Neojinnah]

You think the Armenians have accepted the current border between Turkey and Armenia mentally? You don't need that, what you need is a secure border and a status quo, one that the adversary signs to legally, even if it doesn't accept it mentally.

You are only thinking about this from the lens of the status quo and trying to justify it. So there's nothing wrong with maintaining hostility and tensions for decades because you can just making sure you spend enough on your military to avoid the other country overturning the status quo.

I am thinking outside the status quo and what the world could have been. Pakistan suffers from terrorism, a drug epidemic, two insurgencies on the Western front, misallocation of capital away from human development to military, and much more, because of refusing to budge on the Durand Line.

Not to mention the correct analogy here isn't Turkey and Armenia but Turkey and their war with the Arabs against the emergence of a Kurdish nation. So much energy went into erasing the national identity of another group of people, keeping them suppressed, fighting nationalist groups, etc to maintain a status quo which will never make sense to me (though I'm an outsider).

 

[PK781]

It had been a long time since zionists had been held responsible for a war or a crisis... Without the zionists alibi you would be lost, isn't it?
(I just add that I'm an atheist).

just bcaz your nations(europe) have cucked and submitted totally to zionists, doesn't mean everyone has.
The muslim world is waking up, and when its time, Things will change and happen and stun those who think its all BS.

We're never lost our way, we know our destination and the path necessary. The hurdles in the way will be removed no matter what.

The downings of french Rafale in india was a stunner for everyone too. Just like that.

 

[Neojinnah]

You make no sense because you aren't really presenting any solutions or conclusions/end.

Well the only real solution is dismantling the border, free travel for locals who were divided by it for centuries, and a combination of imagination, statecraft, and diplomacy which is lacking in the rulers of the world. And like I said, if it sounds unbelievable/impractical, hoping to crush Afghanistan enough until it accepts the Durand Line is also impractical, and that's why Pakistan is suffering from multiple insurgencies right now pursuing that policy.

 

[hyperman]

Well the only real solution is dismantling the border, free travel for locals who were divided by it for centuries, and a combination of imagination, statecraft, and diplomacy which is lacking in the rulers of the world. And like I said, if it sounds unbelievable/impractical, hoping to crush Afghanistan enough until it accepts the Durand Line is also impractical, and that's why Pakistan is suffering from multiple insurgencies right now pursuing that policy.

You are just saying bullshit bro. The Dismantling of the border is a dismantling of Pakistan.

No one saying anything about crushing Afghanistan.

 

[Neojinnah]

You are just saying bullshit bro. The Dismantling of the border is a dismantling of Pakistan.

No one saying anything about crushing Afghanistan.

I don't think it's bullshit. And as an ordinary human being, I don't see how the existence of Pakistan as a country matters to me. Apparently, the existence of Pakistan is sacrosant and vital for its inhabitants. But for the last 80 years, Pakistanis have basically been living in authoritarian third world hell under siege trying to maintain these borders and allocating most of their money to defense.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I don't think it's bullshit. And as an ordinary human being, I don't see how the existence of Pakistan as a country matters to me. Apparently, the existence of Pakistan is sacrosant and vital for its inhabitants. But for the last 80 years, Pakistanis have basically been living in hell under siege trying to maintain these borders and allocating most of their money to defense.

The existence of Pakistan matters to the Pakistani people. The existence of Pakistan is the ULTIMATE SANCTITY. Without Pakistan, the fate of the Pakistani people will be FAR FAR WORST than that of the Palestinians in Gaza.

Perhaps afghanistan shouldn't exist. Best it is nuked. It is a menace and a scourge to the rest of humanity.

HELL on earth is when you lose your nation, culture, heritage, traditions, race and religion.

 

[K2RULEZ]

Told you so. India was always going to be forced to pick a side. India has played both sides.

 

[Neojinnah]

HELL on earth is when you lose your nation, culture, heritage, traditions, race and religion.

These are all fake meaningless things. If they mattered so much, neither of would be thriving in foreign countries living a modern lifestyle and speaking and writing in English daily.

Without Pakistan, the fate of the Pakistani people will be FAR FAR WORST than that of the Palestinians in Gaza.

There are Pakistanis out there still living as refugees and IDPs because of the forever war in the Northwest. I'm not going to trivialize the Gaza genocide but it sounds an awful lot like you are trivializing the suffering and devastation Pakistanis have already gone through.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

These are all fake meaningless things. If they mattered so much, neither of would be thriving in foreign countries living a modern lifestyle and speaking and writing in English daily.

There are Pakistanis out there still living as refugees and IDPs because of the forever war in the Northwest. I'm not going to trivialize the Gaza genocide but it sounds an awful lot like you are trivializing the suffering and devastation Pakistanis have already gone through.

We may be living in foreign countries but our racial, cultural, ethnic and religious identities remain FIRMLY iintact.

 

[Neojinnah]

We may be living in foreign countries but our racial, cultural, ethnic and religious identities remain FIRMLY iintact.

If you can maintain your racial, cultural, ethnic, and religious identity while living in a foreign country, I don't understand why anyone needs Pakistan to maintain these things.

 

[Master Chief]

If you can maintain your racial, cultural, ethnic, and religious identity while living in a foreign country, I don't understand why anyone needs Pakistan to maintain these things.

What? Who is this and what have you done with the real @Neojinnah ?

 

[Neojinnah]

The existence of Pakistan matters to the Pakistani people. The existence of Pakistan is the ULTIMATE SANCTITY. Without Pakistan, the fate of the Pakistani people will be FAR FAR WORST than that of the Palestinians in Gaza.

Perhaps afghanistan shouldn't exist. Best it is nuked. It is a menace and a scourge to the rest of humanity.

HELL on earth is when you lose your nation, culture, heritage, traditions, race and religion.

Anothee thing to note is your national identity has dehumanized you. No ordinary person would casually wish to drop nuclear weapons on anyone. But nationalism and a psychosis over maintaining imaginary artificial borders turns people into zombies wishing death and destruction on othera for no good reason