PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[Yommie]

Ideally by 2030 J-10C will completely phase out F-16 in PAF's fleet.

 

[FuturePAF]

View attachment 11822

Pakistan Air Fore J-10CE with the Super Sonic CM-400 Missile placed in front of its arsenal indicates the aircraft's other potential roles.

Didn’t a recent official PAF video say the PAF will be fielding air launched Hypersonic Missiles?

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[FuturePAF]

Ideally by 2030 J-10C will completely phase out F-16 in PAF's fleet.

Probably better off focusing on phasing out the Mirages with the J-10CE. The F-16s are getting some external maintenance support, and have relatively modern avionics and munitions. The Mirages are well past their best use by date.

 

[Yommie]

Probably better off focusing on phasing out the Mirages with the J-10CE. The F-16s are getting some external maintenance support, and have relatively modern avionics and munitions. The Mirages are well past their best use by date.

Mirage is phased out with JF-17. These two jets are very similar in size. J-10C is similar in size to F-16.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Mirage is phased out with JF-17. These two jets are very similar in size. J-10C is similar in size to F-16.

No, JF17s are replacing F7/F-7PG not Mirages, J10C is started to replacing Mirages, and F16s is still Pakistan frontline jet

And F16s will replace by j31 not by J10C

 

[FuturePAF]

Mirage is phased out with JF-17. These two jets are very similar in size. J-10C is similar in size to F-16.

Does the PAF intend to build more than the already planned for 30 Block 3 JF-17s to replace the Mirages? As more J-10s are procured, it’s the Mirages that will be retired. The continued use of the F-16s signal continued balancing of relations with the U.S., while also having more of a deterrent value than our Mirage 3/5s.

Sure the F-16s will eventually be phased out, but I don’t see that happening until the J-31s are inducted, leaving time for relations to potentially change with the US. Should relations improve, we could see most of the planes getting a SLEP, as well as a Viper upgrade. Only today, Iranian missiles hit targets inside Pakistani territory and Russia is going to be a larger pariah for years to come. It’s not impossible to see Pakistan become a “Frontline State” once again, backed by the GCC to contain Iran, as well as a “Frontline State” to contain Russia and make inroads into Central Asia. The price for which will undoubtedly be military gear (including F-16 upgrades) as well as, if they are smarter this time around, economic aid in the form of industrial investments and debt rescheduling/canceling, as happened after 9/11. Pakistan needs to leave open the possibility that those F-16s can be upgraded and Pakistan can pick up 18 brand new Block 72 Vipers, continuing the relationship between the PAF and the US for at least another 30 years.

It’s my “The Great Central Asian Ludo Board” (Four sides; China, Pakistan, Russia, and Iran) theory, a version of Mackinder’s Eurasia theory; who ever controls the heartland of Eurasia controls the world. Pakistan (backed by the west, Turkey and the GCC) make a play for Central Asia at the expense of Iran and Russia (both Indian allies) and somewhat at the expense of China’s unchallenged access for central Asian resources (which China has already signaled to Pakistan would be ok with them anyway). It won’t be a major challenge to China, but could be a significant issue for Russia and Iran, and that is where Pakistan matters to the other major powers, and Pakistan gains back its international relevance, and quid pro quo; Pakistan gets F-16s upgrades and possibly new Block 72s.

One possible way this happens is Trump comes to power, wants to really contain Iran, and has his team approach Pakistan to close up Iranian smuggling on Iran’s eastern flank; Turkmenistan down to Gwadar. Pakistan will need alternative economic and military means to deal with the fallout of such a demand. It could also be the way Afghanistan “comes in from the cold” and integrates into the global order; all to the long term benefit of Pakistan, and Trumps potential friends in the mining sector. Trumps gave the Talibs the deal, so He’s best places to make a deal with them again.

Coming back to the J-10s. If the above mentioned plays out, the PAF may still continue to procure the J-10s, but perhaps not as many, stopping at say 75 J-10s instead of 90-100, and then go into procuring the J-31 as intended. The PAF probably has a plan to eventually field around 150 J-10s and F-16s in about 8 squadrons. What that mix comprises depends on international politics (and our economy). I don’t see the PAF wanting to procure past ~180 JF-17s; 10 full strength squadrons, and maybe a dozen JF-17s for the CCS. The PAF probably wants to leave room for about 3-4 squadrons of 5th Gen platforms; about 54-72 fighters. A 21-22 Squadron Air Force with about another squadron and a half with the CCS; about 400 fighters in total. (Should the threat increase in the 2030s/2040s and as the early JF-17s will then need to be retired as well as the earliest F-16s, finally, the number of 5th Gen fighters could be increased; perhaps by a further 3-4 squadrons, but that time line is beyond the scope of reasonable prediction, especially with our currently limited economy. The only thing is with a few squadrons of J-31, the ground work will have been laid to expand the fleet relatively easily.)

 

[Yommie]

No, JF17s are replacing F7/F-7PG not Mirages, J10C is started to replacing Mirages, and F16s is still Pakistan frontline jet

And F16s will replace by j31 not by J10C

Depends on J-10C numbers. Other than 1 squadron of 18 F-16 C/D, the rest of PAF's F-16 are A/B models from the early 80s which are due for retirement in a few years. If there is sufficient number of new J-10C, then all F-16 can be retired by 2030 including the C/D squadron.

 

[Yommie]

Does the PAF intend to build more than the already planned for 30 Block 3 JF-17s to replace the Mirages? As more J-10s are procured, it’s the Mirages that will be retired. The continued use of the F-16s signal continued balancing of relations with the U.S., while also having more of a deterrent value than our Mirage 3/5s.

Sure the F-16s will eventually be phased out, but I don’t see that happening until the J-31s are inducted, leaving time for relations to potentially change with the US. Should relations improve, we could see most of the planes getting a SLEP, as well as a Viper upgrade. Only today, Iranian missiles hit targets inside Pakistani territory and Russia is going to be a larger pariah for years to come. It’s not impossible to see Pakistan become a “Frontline State” once again, backed by the GCC to contain Iran, as well as a “Frontline State” to contain Russia and make inroads into Central Asia. The price for which will undoubtedly be military gear (including F-16 upgrades) as well as, if they are smarter this time around, economic aid in the form of industrial investments and debt rescheduling/canceling, as happened after 9/11. Pakistan needs to leave open the possibility that those F-16s can be upgraded and Pakistan can pick up 18 brand new Block 72 Vipers, continuing the relationship between the PAF and the US for at least another 30 years.

It’s my “The Great Central Asian Ludo Board” (Four sides; China, Pakistan, Russia, and Iran) theory, a version of Mackinder’s Eurasia theory, who ever controls the heartland of Eurasia controls the world.

There is no improvement in relation with the US. Pakistan is likely to join BRICs next year.

 

[FuturePAF]

There is no improvement in relation with the US. Pakistan is likely to join BRICs next year.

Pakistan can be a member of Brics and still maintain good relations with the US. Pakistan needs good relations with the US more than it needs Brics. All Brics nations except Russia need the US and its market.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Depends on J-10C numbers. Other than 1 squadron of 18 F-16 C/D, the rest of PAF's F-16 are A/B models from the early 80s which are due for retirement in a few years. If there is sufficient number of new J-10C, then all F-16 can be retired by 2030 including the C/D squadron.

It's not your concerns when we replace our F16s, if US allows us to upgrade our F16s with Turkish upgrade than we have no problem to retain them till 2040-2045

J10C is replacing Mirages not F16s and j31 will be the jet that would replace our F16s including block 52 C/D

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Ali Yusuf]

So much has happened and still happening elsewhere, lest we ignore the issue ...... how the J-10C fared against the Eurofighter Typhoon, in the Zilzal-II Air Exercise?

 

[White Privilege]

View attachment 9643

View attachment 9646

So Rafales did not participate??