Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[studsmart]

or use y20 for kj500 radar

 

[Ali_Baba]

I'm still a little weirded out. The J10C exported to Pakistan is equipped with A-launch and B-guided functions, but this function requires the support of the early warning aircraft data link. China's KJ-500 is a digital array phased array radar, and it is a three-sided array. Perhaps the standard cost of upgrading the ZDK-03 to the KJ-500 would be very high, so Pakistan gave up this approach.

It is an odd decision for sure.. maybe they can move then to the Iranian border instead? They need the coverage over there it seems !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[corven]

Erieye 100% cannot be compared with KJ-500. The latter is a second-generation fully digital active phased array radar. It is the world's first active phased array radar early warning aircraft using a fully digital array. As with the J20, I doubt China will agree to the sale of an AWACS of this class.

 

[corven]

Supplementary explanation: KJ500 directly uses digital synthesis equipment to generate, transmit and receive radar RF signals, phase shift and amplitude weighting. Its radar beam scanning and reception all use digital beam forming. Not just back-end signal processing.

 

[FuturePAF]

or use y20 for kj500 radar

Down the line, IMHO, China will build its own version of the E-7 with a MESA style Radar on top of its C-919 planes. Until then, the Y-8/9 will probably fill the gap.

I guess the PAF will buy more Erieye planes until an export version is made me the PAF thinks it needs a more powerful AWACS.

 

[FuturePAF]

Supplementary explanation: KJ500 directly uses digital synthesis equipment to generate, transmit and receive radar RF signals, phase shift and amplitude weighting. Its radar beam scanning and reception all use digital beam forming. Not just back-end signal processing.

And the Erieye does none of this?

 

[corven]

And the Erieye does none of this?

Even the E-2D and E3-737 are only digital back-end signal processing. So I personally think it's because of technology and price. 90% of the world's gallium nitride production is in China, so it is not considered to be a problem with the price of the gallium nitride TR module itself.

 

[Oscar]

What is the purpose of creating Air Eagle ( Private ) Limited?

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Air Eagle is a cargo airline run by PAF as its “fauji cargo air” charters and had retd PAF - I know the person who started it. It also serves as private transportation for PAF families in rare cases.

 

[FuturePAF]

Good morning

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No long MAD stinger sensor on the tail?

 

[Quwa]

Air Eagle is a cargo airline run by PAF as its “fauji cargo air” charters and had retd PAF - I know the person who started it. It also serves as private transportation for PAF families in rare cases.

Any chance the PAF would consider setting up a contract air training service? Basically, use the Mirages, older JF-17s, F-7PGs, and possibly even some F-16s for DACT with both the PAF and other air forces? It'd be an interesting way of building track-2 ties with other states, continue leveraging retired PAF officers, and generate revenue.

 

[Ak01]

No long MAD stinger sensor on the tail?

MAD is a short range sensor requiring really low flight, the weight and size penalties are not worth it in exchange for extra sonobouys

 

[GriffinsRule]

Any chance the PAF would consider setting up a contract air training service? Basically, use the Mirages, older JF-17s, F-7PGs, and possibly even some F-16s for DACT with both the PAF and other air forces? It'd be an interesting way of building track-2 ties with other states, continue leveraging retired PAF officers, and generate revenue.

But why would any air force want to go up against F-7s or old Mirages instead of newer higher tech fighters they are more likely to face in the future.

 

[Oscar]

Any chance the PAF would consider setting up a contract air training service? Basically, use the Mirages, older JF-17s, F-7PGs, and possibly even some F-16s for DACT with both the PAF and other air forces? It'd be an interesting way of building track-2 ties with other states, continue leveraging retired PAF officers, and generate revenue.

I think the issue is pay - the PAF simply cannot afford to pay the average being offered to contractors and generally many early retirees from the PAF end up with either middle east airforces or in airlines - 1-2 have ended up at Top Aces(or ATAC maybe). The problem here is that if you create an entity like Air Eagle - it is still considered part of the PAF and Pakistan which basically means any information shared with that entity is shared with Pakistan(nations looking to train more rigorously with their tactics arent always open to it) regardless of NDAs(since that term has less reliability in Pakistan anyway) and second - the reputation Pakistan holds in general(regardless of how PAF is percieved) is negative so it may not go beyond token few clients.


In history, the target clientele that could/can afford such services in GCC prefers western pilots who are aplenty - and have chosen to create their own centers regardless of effectiveness, quality or even standards which range from excellent(ATLC) to okayish in certain cases.


What the PAF is better off doing is the guard like program - a weekend warrior like situation that lets pilots earn what they want to while reducing temptation for other side commission based hustles - yet bringing them in for intense training on a regular basis.

But, this isnt exactly a great choice either -

The true best thing that can be done for the PAF is to start creating consultancy services to something like Air Eagle so to push the want to be in thought leadership and training. This might even encourage reduction in attractiveness to the general two choices available to officer retirees which is either Shaheen foundation, procurement(that leads to serious corruption at times) or real estate.

Either way, we dither from the thread but to bring it back in line - the PAF could provide services on how forces can effectively utilize smaller AEW assets using asymmetric tactics against a larger adversary. Might irk their primary supplier a little but many ASEAN forces would be interested in this.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I think the issue is pay - the PAF simply cannot afford to pay the average being offered to contractors and generally many early retirees from the PAF end up with either middle east airforces or in airlines - 1-2 have ended up at Top Aces(or ATAC maybe). The problem here is that if you create an entity like Air Eagle - it is still considered part of the PAF and Pakistan which basically means any information shared with that entity is shared with Pakistan(nations looking to train more rigorously with their tactics arent always open to it) regardless of NDAs(since that term has less reliability in Pakistan anyway) and second - the reputation Pakistan holds in general(regardless of how PAF is percieved) is negative so it may not go beyond token few clients.


In history, the target clientele that could/can afford such services in GCC prefers western pilots who are aplenty - and have chosen to create their own centers regardless of effectiveness, quality or even standards which range from excellent(ATLC) to okayish in certain cases.


What the PAF is better off doing is the guard like program - a weekend warrior like situation that lets pilots earn what they want to while reducing temptation for other side commission based hustles - yet bringing them in for intense training on a regular basis.

But, this isnt exactly a great choice either -

The true best thing that can be done for the PAF is to start creating consultancy services to something like Air Eagle so to push the want to be in thought leadership and training. This might even encourage reduction in attractiveness to the general two choices available to officer retirees which is either Shaheen foundation, procurement(that leads to serious corruption at times) or real estate.

Either way, we dither from the thread but to bring it back in line - the PAF could provide services on how forces can effectively utilize smaller AEW assets using asymmetric tactics against a larger adversary. Might irk their primary supplier a little but many ASEAN forces would be interested in this.

I think there are two approaches to this. The public approach is already covered by PAF having ACE/CCS squadrons to train PAF pilots on tactics on their aircraft using DACT against what is available in PAF.
If I had a billion dollars approach, which might be more useful imo would be to buy aircraft using a completely private venture.
The idea would be to buy 4th gen aircraft being retired by countries such as the Mirage 2000/F-16s/Mig-29s and even newly built JF-17s and use them to contract out training as red fox in exercises for PAF or GCC countries, Turkey or even NATO member states.
If the entity would be quasi govt/PAF controlled, not sure it would be possible to acquire the required jets or make the enterprise profitable. Not to mention running a foul local laws and red tape in Pakistan

 

[Sparten]

Any chance the PAF would consider setting up a contract air training service? Basically, use the Mirages, older JF-17s, F-7PGs, and possibly even some F-16s for DACT with both the PAF and other air forces? It'd be an interesting way of building track-2 ties with other states, continue leveraging retired PAF officers, and generate revenue.

Not since Marg Bar Sarmachar. A lot of assets due for retirement are going to be instead reassigned to the south west. The stability and frankly sanity of the Iranian regime is an open question.