Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Piet]

In late 80s, Mansour Sattari, then IRIAF Chief, laid this plan of rebuilding F-5E fleet to "Azarakhsh" standards, an extensively rebuilt/MLU'ed airframe with J-7G/E like avionics. For its time, Azaraksh was a good light CAP platform which should have served and retired in early 2010s. It had everything for a 80s/90s fighter. Three were built only before IRIAF refused to purchase it. They were equipped with following:

- Chinese SY-80 Pulse-Doppler radar (35 KM track range for a fighter)
2 x Iranian MFDs + HUD
- 930-4 RWR (J-7N) and two side on 941-4AC chaff/flare dispensers used in J-8
- GPS + JD-3 TACAN again in J-8
- Type III IFF
- Air data + Mission Computer, configuration of J-7E.
- PL-5C, AIM-9J(Fattar), I am not sure if AIM-7E2 could have been slaved to Chinese radar.

What we have known as Kowsar since 2018 was supposed to be Azarkhsh-II, entirely from scratch airframe powered by RD-33 which was never built. Sattaris also planned YF-17 like F-5 variant local production. Remember Shahi IIAF planned F-17 or FA/18 TOT production in Iran so blue prints were shared. This resulted in botched attempt of Saeghe-I/II under a project named "Thunderbolt-80" as supposedly 1980 was the year the ground was supposed to be broken in Iran for this production line.

Sattari started this for two apparent reasons. Russia gave a big FU to Iran after Yeltsin failed to provide MIG-31 and Mig-29 (24+72) under american pressure. Also Sattari came from Air defence unit and F-5E/F family is known for their small RCS and has never been shot at even borderline BVR ranges during conflicts where same missiles brought down F-4E in bulk. He may have fallen in love with this plane like others had their own favorite platforms. Commander Behrooz Naghdi bek's obsession with Mirage-F1 kept this cashgrab-monster alive in IRIAF for decades without any weapon.

Good stories, now irrelevant.

Greetings

Very interesting that Azarkhsh 1 x RD-33, and YF-17 like F-5 variant are mentioned. I make the assumption that the YF-17/F-5 variant would have 2 x turbofans.

Sounds that these two concepts aspire to the single-engine F-20 and twin F-CK-1C Ching-Kuo respectively.

I still hold out hope for such F-5 variants from Iran.

However, with the now almost certain acquisition of SU-35 Flanker + license production for it, as well as SU-30, all bets are off.

Iran would have to go the way of license-assembly, license-production etc., that would not only require technical and expert help, but also a massive influx of new and modern electronics, avionics, sensors, weapons, and so forth. I would dare to say even more expert support might be required in the last-mentioned regard.

In this case I would also argue for a number of surplus or second hand MiG-29's, say 100 at least, to finally get the ball rolling on rejuvenating the IRIAF.

Whatever common components exist between Flankers and Fulcrums, will be a bonus. Keep structural changes - at least to Fulcrum, to a minimum. One exception that I would make is to the fuselage, by adding a SMT'- style 'Humpback'.

Whatever Flanker electronics, radar, EW-suite, weapons ... can be utilized on both aircraft types, will not only bring down unit cost, but that all-important timeline before the 'next one'.

Do not re-engine Fulcrum unless absolutely necessary - such as 'smokey' ones, or ones that have really reached the end of the line.

I feel very strongly about the following for Fulcrum.

1) An AESA radar (~200/150km) with an adequately extended- range BVRAAM (~150km).

2) State of the art EW SPS (Khibiny?)

3) State of the art comms and especially d/link. The last which I suspect Iran has already demonstrated during s.c. 'Gashtzan' patrol, by F-14 and a Kowsar.

So yes, while this will introduce a lot of Russian commonality to the IRIAF, this could only be a good thing.

The really big question - at least to me - is what will arrive with Flanker, R-37M?

Worth the wait.

Piet

 

[BigMela2onin]

Russia gave a big FU to Iran after Yeltsin failed to provide MIG-31 and Mig-29 (24+72) under american pressure

Collapse of USSR was a huge opportunity to gain high-end tech. Imagine MiG-31 flying in IRIAF colors. Shame Yeltsin was an American agent.

 

[ToddE]

Collapse of USSR was a huge opportunity to gain high-end tech. Imagine MiG-31 flying in IRIAF colors. Shame Yeltsin was an American agent.

More shame on Rafsanjani led stupid leadership that failed to understand that Yeltsin's Russia would keep the cash but would supply nothing like they later did with S-300 PMU2. They should have focused on local programs in collaboration with China with all their might at that time. At one point in mid-late 90s, there were dozens or probably hundreds of Chinese CATIC engineers and workers in Iran to work on project "Silk-Route I/II" which involved F-5 upgradation/rebuilding and from scratch production. They could have invested in something similar for F-4E/D or F-14 with Chinese involvement.

 

[ToddE]

Greetings

Very interesting that Azarkhsh 1 x RD-33, and YF-17 like F-5 variant are mentioned. I make the assumption that the YF-17/F-5 variant would have 2 x turbofans.

Sounds that these two concepts aspire to the single-engine F-20 and twin F-CK-1C Ching-Kuo respectively.

I still hold out hope for such F-5 variants from Iran.

However, with the now almost certain acquisition of SU-35 Flanker + license production for it, as well as SU-30, all bets are off.

Iran would have to go the way of license-assembly, license-production etc., that would not only require technical and expert help, but also a massive influx of new and modern electronics, avionics, sensors, weapons, and so forth. I would dare to say even more expert support might be required in the last-mentioned regard.

In this case I would also argue for a number of surplus or second hand MiG-29's, say 100 at least, to finally get the ball rolling on rejuvenating the IRIAF.

Whatever common components exist between Flankers and Fulcrums, will be a bonus. Keep structural changes - at least to Fulcrum, to a minimum. One exception that I would make is to the fuselage, by adding a SMT'- style 'Humpback'.

Whatever Flanker electronics, radar, EW-suite, weapons ... can be utilized on both aircraft types, will not only bring down unit cost, but that all-important timeline before the 'next one'.

Do not re-engine Fulcrum unless absolutely necessary - such as 'smokey' ones, or ones that have really reached the end of the line.

I feel very strongly about the following for Fulcrum.

1) An AESA radar (~200/150km) with an adequately extended- range BVRAAM (~150km).

2) State of the art EW SPS (Khibiny?)

3) State of the art comms and especially d/link. The last which I suspect Iran has already demonstrated during s.c. 'Gashtzan' patrol, by F-14 and a Kowsar.

So yes, while this will introduce a lot of Russian commonality to the IRIAF, this could only be a good thing.

The really big question - at least to me - is what will arrive with Flanker, R-37M?

Worth the wait.

Piet

SU-35S arrival at Hamedan is confirmed by reliable OSINT sources (proper journalists) but is yet to be visually confirmed. Seems like the order for 50 aircraft (+12 SU-30SM?) will be completed by late 2020s. Too late and too little IMO. The world will be moving to 5th gen by that time. That if, Russians stay to their word and complete the order which IMO post ukraine war they would not to appease Trump.

When first report of SU-35S-YAK-130 deal came out, there was also news of MIG-29 fleet upgradation to MIG-29SMT as well as SU-24M being brought to SU-24MK2. There are so far no strong signs of that happening except that surprisingly last year Iran from somewhere pulled out 2 more airframes of MIG-29 with the fleet now standing at 24 airframes strong. 20 came from Russia, 4 from Iraq, 2 crashed, where did they get these two additional airframes is beyond me.

Some OSINT account also reported stored SU-24MK and SU-22M4 airframes being finally pulled out. For upgradation? who knows

credit @morghe_Tondar

IMO Kowsar program is dead. The plane's price almost touched 20 mln USD and a small CAP fighter has little to offer to Iran in the current scenario where Iranian airspace is being challenged from hundreds of KM away from the Iranian border. Instead of building 70 Kowsars for 1.4 Billion USD, the same amount can be spent on converting the entire F-14A fleet to F-14AM standard + Maghsoud/Fakour LRBVR and use them as RuAF uses their MIG-31BM for Long range engagement and Hypersonic ALBM strikes.

 

[ToddE]

oohh....... Babak Taghvaee ..... if I'm not mistaken he lives far from Iran

Do not shoot the messanger but has he ever been proven wrong? ok once may be but most of the times his inside scoop from IRIAF is 100% accurate. I have no reason to not believe him.

 

[ToddE]

F-14AM ...... can track a bomber/AWACS at ~300 KM, a fighter at 150-200 KM with its fully digitalised AWG-9+, launch 6 x ARH+Datalinked Fakour-90 from 150 KM or Azaraksh HOBS-WVR missiles while turning at higher AOA at a higher speed than an F-16 or F-18. Its kinda MLU'ed airframe can provide a 3000+ KM CAP range with external fuel, perfect for launching ALBMs.

Any sane country would have invested heavily to keep this 42-airframe strong fleet at its finest but IRIAF instead invested in keeping F-7N, F-5 and Mirages. Retiring this plane to junkyards even with flankers in hand will be stupidity. They should rather seek Russian, Chinese aviation industry help to modernize this platform at 4+ gen standards with AESA radars, IRST+HMDs, fully MLUed airframes etc along with the capability to lob 3000-4000 KG heavy MRBM-ALBM. 42 x such airframes mean IRIAF will technically be operating 42 x MIG-31BMs in Russian hands along with 50 x SU-35S and 24 MIG-29SMTs. Not a bad fleet at all.

 

[Navid09]

SU-35S arrival at Hamedan is confirmed by reliable OSINT sources (proper journalists) but is yet to be visually confirmed. Seems like the order for 50 aircraft (+12 SU-30SM?) will be completed by late 2020s. Too late and too little IMO. The world will be moving to 5th gen by that time. That if, Russians stay to their word and complete the order which IMO post ukraine war they would not to appease Trump.

When first report of SU-35S-YAK-130 deal came out, there was also news of MIG-29 fleet upgradation to MIG-29SMT as well as SU-24M being brought to SU-24MK2. There are so far no strong signs of that happening except that surprisingly last year Iran from somewhere pulled out 2 more airframes of MIG-29 with the fleet now standing at 24 airframes strong. 20 came from Russia, 4 from Iraq, 2 crashed, where did they get these two additional airframes is beyond me.

Some OSINT account also reported stored SU-24MK and SU-22M4 airframes being finally pulled out. For upgradation? who knows

credit @morghe_Tondar

IMO Kowsar program is dead. The plane's price almost touched 20 mln USD and a small CAP fighter has little to offer to Iran in the current scenario where Iranian airspace is being challenged from hundreds of KM away from the Iranian border. Instead of building 70 Kowsars for 1.4 Billion USD, the same amount can be spent on converting the entire F-14A fleet to F-14AM standard + Maghsoud/Fakour LRBVR and use them as RuAF uses their MIG-31BM for Long range engagement and Hypersonic ALBM strikes.

Could they have gotten the other 2x mig29's from Syria?

 

[BigMela2onin]

Could they have gotten the other 2x mig29's from Syria?

I wonder if SyAAF could evacuate to Iran, not sure if US would allow them to fly across Iraqi airspace. The MiG-29s and Su-24s would be somewhat useful but it's more important to deprive HTS of them.

 

[Kyussis]

Do not shoot the messanger but has he ever been proven wrong? ok once may be but most of the times his inside scoop from IRIAF is 100% accurate. I have no reason to not believe him.

I once read BT claim that shortly after Iranian Space agancy launched the test rocket with a live ( Mouse and turtle) cargo to test life support systems, the IRGC shot it down using its HQ-2 surface to air missile! Ever since then I laugh when ever someone brings up BT as an "expert" on Iranian aviation topic!

 

[sahureka2]

Do not shoot the messanger but has he ever been proven wrong? ok once may be but most of the times his inside scoop from IRIAF is 100% accurate. I have no reason to not believe him.

in any case he lives outside Iran and cannot control the news directly, and even if he receives some information, it is second hand, that is, brought by others.
This does not alter the fact that it is very rich in direct information from the period in which he lived in Iran in the past and was in direct contact with the Iranian aeronautical issue, but time passes and the distance from what was the motherland leads to the degradation of "knowledge" on the topic, which is actually starting to become outdated, so try to get second or third hand information.
This means that while respecting this Osint, one cannot take everything he writes at face value, also because when he also writes on his "X" page he is not superpartes, and this leads the reader to be doubtful which leads him to look elsewhere for confirm or deny.
So to conclude, it is good to bring any news that concerns everything related to the world of the Iranian aeronautics including the industry, but never take everything as the only and unquestionable truth, the "truth" will only be confirmed when it is shown directly to the public.

 

[sahureka2]

I wonder if SyAAF could evacuate to Iran, not sure if US would allow them to fly across Iraqi airspace. The MiG-29s and Su-24s would be somewhat useful but it's more important to deprive HTS of them.

it would certainly be an opportunity for Iran to take into consideration, also because the Syrian SU-24s are in an updated version.
But if they cannot be expatriated, they would have to be sabotaged, which Assad's military did not do with the L-39 / L-39ZOs and many fell intact into the hands of the insurgents.

 

[Piet]

SU-35S arrival at Hamedan is confirmed by reliable OSINT sources (proper journalists) but is yet to be visually confirmed. Seems like the order for 50 aircraft (+12 SU-30SM?) will be completed by late 2020s. Too late and too little IMO. The world will be moving to 5th gen by that time. That if, Russians stay to their word and complete the order which IMO post ukraine war they would not to appease Trump.

When first report of SU-35S-YAK-130 deal came out, there was also news of MIG-29 fleet upgradation to MIG-29SMT as well as SU-24M being brought to SU-24MK2. There are so far no strong signs of that happening except that surprisingly last year Iran from somewhere pulled out 2 more airframes of MIG-29 with the fleet now standing at 24 airframes strong. 20 came from Russia, 4 from Iraq, 2 crashed, where did they get these two additional airframes is beyond me.

Some OSINT account also reported stored SU-24MK and SU-22M4 airframes being finally pulled out. For upgradation? who knows

credit @morghe_Tondar

IMO Kowsar program is dead. The plane's price almost touched 20 mln USD and a small CAP fighter has little to offer to Iran in the current scenario where Iranian airspace is being challenged from hundreds of KM away from the Iranian border. Instead of building 70 Kowsars for 1.4 Billion USD, the same amount can be spent on converting the entire F-14A fleet to F-14AM standard + Maghsoud/Fakour LRBVR and use them as RuAF uses their MIG-31BM for Long range engagement and Hypersonic ALBM strikes.

<Snip>

... When first report of SU-35S-YAK-130 deal came out, there was also news of MIG-29 fleet upgradation to MIG-29SMT as well as SU-24M being brought to SU-24MK2. ... .

I wonder now that Assad has fled what are the chances that Russia can reclaim its a/c in the Syrian AF and transport these back to Russia, and after suitable upgradation, on to Iran.

Sort of when Iraqi a/c fled to Iran to avoid destruction?

Piet

 

[Piet]

it would certainly be an opportunity for Iran to take into consideration, also because the Syrian SU-24s are in an updated version.
But if they cannot be expatriated, they would have to be sabotaged, which Assad's military did not do with the L-39 / L-39ZOs and many fell intact into the hands of the insurgents.

Would be a real waste ... .

Piet

 

[BigMela2onin]

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[ToddE]

in any case he lives outside Iran and cannot control the news directly, and even if he receives some information, it is second hand, that is, brought by others.
This does not alter the fact that it is very rich in direct information from the period in which he lived in Iran in the past and was in direct contact with the Iranian aeronautical issue, but time passes and the distance from what was the motherland leads to the degradation of "knowledge" on the topic, which is actually starting to become outdated, so try to get second or third hand information.
This means that while respecting this Osint, one cannot take everything he writes at face value, also because when he also writes on his "X" page he is not superpartes, and this leads the reader to be doubtful which leads him to look elsewhere for confirm or deny.
So to conclude, it is good to bring any news that concerns everything related to the world of the Iranian aeronautics including the industry, but never take everything as the only and unquestionable truth, the "truth" will only be confirmed when it is shown directly to the public.

Journalists do not control the news, they receive scoop from their sources and then publish them mixed with their own opinions. He does the same. How far they live from the source of information means nothing in the modern world.

What is important to me is that roughly 8/10 times he is proven right. He broke the Su-35S news while General Bagheri was still signing the deal in Moscow, he claimed Kowsar program is done in 2020 and it later got proven right. He told about the troubled aerodynamics of Yasin and now we have a crash. List goes on and on. There used to be other Iranian aviation journalists some 10-15 years ago but most of them have left the scene so he is like the sole insider we Iranian aviation fans have who is still publishing and is often unbiased when it comes to IRIAF.

Whether you take him seriously or not is up to you. I for example have respect for David Cinciotti (The Aviationist) but I think Tyler Rogoway (War zone) is a troll.