'Kicked him to the curb': How Elon Musk forced Vivek Ramaswamy out of DOGE

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[AjayGhatak]

You keep avoiding the topic and keep running off to ridiculous red herrings because you cannot counter the simple fact that a number of Americans are openly saying they were fired and replaced by H1-B. This is against the law.

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with H1B.

And I have answered all the points that you raised.

You are not addressing a very basic point here.

If American workers are more skilled than their H1B replacement and are being systemically replaced by H1Bs then why dont YOU or someone else makes a company with them as employees and disrupt the very companies doing that?

Unless you address that now I will not answer to your whataboutism posts.

Here in Australia, Filipinos and Vietnamese manage to do the job just fine. US consulates are crowded with masses from developing countries who want to move there. Lots of non-Indians have the same skills as Indians.

Huh? How is that relevant to our disucssion? Australia is a separate country with very little tech industry like silicon valley. There are IT departments of established companies but mostly thats the extent of it.

 

[AjayGhatak]

You are correct. I led a couple of projects where entire operations were outsourced to India. In one instance, the H1Bs were in the US to be trained by the very people they would be replacing. They would take that training back and teach the new workers how to perform those jobs. I hated every minute of it.

That was your company replacing domestic workers with a contractor or sub-contractor in India. An outsourcing for likely cost saving.

He is arguing a systemic industry wide nepotistic replacement of American workers by lower skilled Indian worker via H1B. That is something I do not agree is a systemic problem.

Cost based displacement by outsourcing is very much a thing. Thats like American companies moving manufacturing jobs to China for cost advantage. This is a different issue.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Indians excel in fraud. They get away with it because of political correctness and Indian nepotism.

The internal audits show fraud rates approaching 50 per cent,

Immigration audits reveal large-scale Indian fraud of visa system

Thousands of Indian students, skilled workers and 457 visa holders have been admitted to Australia on dodgy travel and work documents. Briefings prepared by the Immigration Department and obtained by the ABC's Fact Checking Unit under Freedom of Information show out-of-control fraud of the visa...

www.abc.net.au

Thats a 12 year old article from Australia. How is that relevant to this discussion?

 

[Developereo]

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with H1B.

Vivek's tweet was in the context of H1-B.

The fact that you haven't figured it out means you are just posting to increase your post count without adding any value to the discussion.

And I have answered all the points that you raised.

You have addressed the central point that firing an American worker to hire an H1-B violates the law.

Huh? How is that relevant to our disucssion? Australia is a separate country with very little tech industry like silicon valley. There are IT departments of established companies but mostly thats the extent of it.

You don't know much about Australia and it's not my job to educate you.

Thats a 12 year old article from Australia. How is that relevant to this discussion?

The article is relevant to demolish your claim that 77% of H1-B visas going to Indians is based on merit. Visa fraud by Indians is well known and has been going on for decades.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Vivek's tweet was in the context of H1-B.

His tweet was in context of shortage of tech talent in America, thats what kicked the entire discussion. He has been a vocal critic of H1B program for quite some time now.

His point was that American culture does not celebrate its engineers same as its other popular icons and thats why as a culture it is not poised to produce as many great engineers.

You have addressed the central point that firing an American worker to hire an H1-B violates the law.

Actually, there is no such law. The law is only this much : You need to prove that you could not recruit an American for a job to hire an H1B. Employment in America is at will and an employer can fire an employee whenever they want without providing any reason.

So yes, an employer can:
1. Fire an American worker.
2. Do a recruitment effort to hire a replacement.
3. Failing that recruit an H1B if they can.

There is absolutely nothing illegal in this.

Only protection American law provides is if a company is hiring or firing solely on the basis of protected categories like race religion etc. That is discrimination and that will stand in court of law.

But if they are replacing more expensive American labour with H1B, there is no law against that so long criteria of H1B is met : that is minimum wage for H1B and hiring effort criteria.

You don't know much about Australia and it's not my job to educate you.

Australia is irrelevant to the discussion here. Australia is not America and it should be obvious.

The article is relevant to demolish your claim that 77% of H1-B visas going to Indians is based on merit. Visa fraud by Indians is well known and has been going on for decades.

Again the article is australian and has no bearing on H1B because duh... there is no H1B in Australia. H1B is American program.

Now most importantly!

why the hell are you not starting a company to disrupt established indians infested bloated companies in USA by hiring the so called "local" talent in USA which is better than H1b?

 

[r3alist]

Americans, including their grads, should not aspire to work in their own prestigious global tech companies, what a bunch of morons..... It's not their jobs to have!

 

[UKBengali]

You are correct. I led a couple of projects where entire operations were outsourced to India. In one instance, the H1Bs were in the US to be trained by the very people they would be replacing. They would take that training back and teach the new workers how to perform those jobs. I hated every minute of it.

Americans having their birthright taken away from them by these unscrupulous companies who should really be branded as traitors.

I am pretty anti-US(foreign policy) but this is just so sad seeing Americans not get the jobs their talents and hard work deserved.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Americans, including their grads, should not aspire to work in their own prestigious global tech companies, what a bunch of morons..... It's not their jobs to have!

Its more like any employer in America is not obliged to hire Americans. Thats American capitalism for you.

Walmart has been buying products made with non American labour for a very very long time. So is practically any company in USA.

Americans having their birthright taken away from them by these unscrupulous companies who should really be branded as traitors.

I am pretty anti-US(foreign policy) but this is just so sad seeing Americans not get the jobs their talents and hard work deserved.

There is no birthright to employment in USA. LOL!

 

[r3alist]

@Developereo instead of flogging a dead horse with the h1b is flawless crew, it's better just to highlight how Americans are taking this issue up

Not one comment have I seen where any adverse outcome from h1b has been accepted, not one I think. It therefore is flawless to them ... https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-cognizant-h1b-visas-discriminates-us-workers/









So basically, corporate execs, Indians, big investors are telling Americans that your citizenship as an American will offer you... rightly.... limited opportunity in your own economy and growth, Indians agree

 

[Developereo]

His tweet was in context of shortage of tech talent in America

The whole discussion, including his tweet, is about H1-B. The justification for H1-B is that the skills are not available in American workers.

Your ignorance will not change reality.

His point was that American culture does not celebrate its engineers

His point was that India produces better engineers than US does.
I am still waiting for you to show me where one single tech product from 1.2 billion Indians has dominated the world or even the US.

I already gave you examples of Germany (SAP), China (TikTok), and Australia (Jira/Confluence) dominating the American market segments.

Nothing from the geniuses in India, not one stinking product!

Actually, there is no such law.

Once again, your ignorance will not change reality. Reality only laughs back at your ignorance of facts.

The INA directs the Secretary of Labor to certify that there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing, qualified and available and the employment of an alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed

Policies and Regulations

www.dol.gov

Firing an American worker and replacing them with an H1-B to do the exact same job violates the LCA.

Again the article is australian and has no bearing on H1B because duh... there is no H1B in Australia. H1B is American program.

It has every breaing on the discussion because it provides objective proof of my claim that Indians engage in large scale systematic fraud in visa applications.

Now most importantly!

Irrelevant.

 

[UKBengali]

Look it is very simple.

H1B is to get workers for cheaper and to keep US wages and labour rights down to a minimum at the same time.

It also gives US some leverage over India as they can withdraw visas if Modi does something that seriously displeases the US.

This talk of filling in a skills gap is nonsense as maybe only around 10% of H1B are actual "talents".

 

[AjayGhatak]

The whole discussion, including his tweet, is about H1-B. The justification for H1-B is that the skills are not available in American workers.

Your ignorance will not change reality.

You are lying. His tweet had no mention of H1B and you are discounting his earlier tweets being critical of H1B. Thats misrepresentation 101.

Irrelevant.

Extremely relevant. Especially when compared to unrelated countries like Australia.

Why the hell YOU are not starting a company to disrupt established indians infested bloated companies in USA by hiring the so called "local" talent in USA which is better than H1b?

 

[Developereo]

You are lying. His tweet had no mention of H1B and you are discounting his earlier tweets being critical of H1B. Thats misrepresentation 101.

His tweet literally starts out by mentioning 'foreign born' workers. How does a 'foreign born' person get to work in the US? Either through family migration or through a work visa.

Well, Duh!

Extremely relevant. Especially when compared to unrelated countries like Australia.

Why the hell YOU are not starting a company to disrupt established indians infested bloated companies in USA by hiring the so called "local" talent in USA which is better than H1b?

The fact that you keep posting this red herring in bold doesn't support your case. It proves only one thing: that you are desperate to change the subject.

 

[AjayGhatak]

How does a 'foreign born' person get to work in the US?

L1
E-2
O-1
TN-1
E-3
and
H-1B as well.

There are HUGE number of visa options. Even Indians use L1 as well.

Weirdly, Americans and YOU are too fixated on H-1B. LOL! While L1 is actually uncapped.

For someone debating about H1B you know very little about American immigration. LOL!