'Kicked him to the curb': How Elon Musk forced Vivek Ramaswamy out of DOGE

[AjayGhatak]

There is a whole spectrum of how people make money. Vivek is squarely in the scum pond end of that spectrum

On Wall st, making money is the only reality. Thats all.

 

[AjayGhatak]

No. Culture is a critical part of success. Technical brilliance is only a small part. Ask any successful tech business owner and they will tell you tech is the easy part.

If you don't know this, your startup is already doomed.

I do not know what do you mean by culture here. But none of these companies have a systemic culture of supporting a particular ethnicity.
Are favors traded? Yes!
Are there back handed deals? Yes!

But it is VERY hard in these companies to debate against sustained results or performance.

Besides, you deny opportunity to talent, someone else gives it. Hiring and retaining high performance workers has been very hard in tech industry. Most of those who cry about H1B do not have capabilities to excel outside of their companies and thats why they remain unemployed. Rest, get employment pretty fast.

 

[Developereo]

Fundamental problem with India is that it hates capitalism and never transitioned to it in 60s or 70s when "Asian tigers" were starting out.

Fundamental problem with Pakistan is feudalism which was never crushed because Jinnah died a bit too early.

Other stuff is more incidental. Japan is WAY more nepotistic and toxic than us as a society. They have it institutionalised in their companies and work culture. Yet they are way more industrialised than either India or Pakistan.

Same with China. Connections and favours are everything there too.

None of these are fundamental issues. They are often self correcting too.

We already touched on this before. Without going into the details of how East Asian culture is fundamentally different from South Asian culture, we can look at the results.

Both Japan and China have produced technical products that have dominated large portions of the globe. Without making excuses, when India produces an array of such technical products, we can continue the conversation. Until then, it remains frozen.

I do not know what do you mean by culture here. But none of these companies have a systemic culture of supporting a particular ethnicity.
Are favors traded? Yes!
Are there back handed deals? Yes!

Companies have a code of conduct but detailed culture is very much a function of the team and management. Everyone knows the code of conduct gets violated but few people bother reporting it and, in most cases, HR doesn't really want to be bothered anyway unless it involves criminal conduct.

In any company, you will find that there are projects that everyone wants to get into, and those that no one wants to touch, and it has nothing to do with the technical aspects but purely the work culture.

But it is VERY hard in these companies to debate against sustained results or performance.

On the contrary, the single most important thing in any project is how management spins the outcome. I have seen projects that spent tens of millions of dollars into thin air and everyone got promoted. As I explained before, big companies have a ridiculous amount of fat and can weather many storms. It is expected that a certain percent of projects will fail or get delayed, and a certain percent need to succeed for the company to meet its goals.

Besides, you deny opportunity to talent, someone else gives it. Hiring and retaining high performance workers has been very hard in tech industry. Most of those who cry about H1B do not have capabilities to excel outside of their companies and thats why they remain unemployed. Rest, get employment pretty fast.

Yes, there is a shortage of some skillsets but the vast majority of tech jobs require relatively mediocre and generic skills.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Developereo

but the vast majority of tech jobs require relatively mediocre and generic skills.

So does it not make sense to bring in low cost, hard working H1B Indians to these jobs?

Regards

 

[Zarvan]

Musk has been quiet about the Visa stuff and now Vivek got the boot!
MAGA seems to stomping people.
Wonder how this will play out.

I can give you a good guess right now or at least my analysis. By the time 1.5 year of Trump's tenure is done most of the guys appointed by Trump right now would have been fired from their jobs and would be sitting on TV's giving interviews against Trump. And by the time Trump tenure ends every post will have third guy on it I mean at least two before would have been fired by Trump from their positions.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo

but the vast majority of tech jobs require relatively mediocre and generic skills.

So does it not make sense to bring in low cost, hard working H1B Indians to these jobs?

Regards

LOL, why?

Why not train your own citizens to do those jobs?

Most of the Indians who come in don't have twenty years of experience. Most of them spent six months rote learning buzzwords to pass an interview.

 

[kambhakt]

The claim was "cost savings" by outsourcing. It took awhile before we realized any "savings". On top of that, the churn rate post outsourcing was on order of 150-200% on average. A couple of the roles was as high as 400%!.

Churn rate of the US employees who used to perform those jobs was less than 10%.

So you are admitting that 'savings' are now being realized.

Not clear about the churn rate as the H1B worker cannot change jobs.

Which role had 400% churn rate.

 

[kambhakt]

LOL, why?

Why not train your own citizens to do those jobs?

Most of the Indians who come in don't have twenty years of experience. Most of them spent six months rote learning buzzwords to pass an interview.

If all Indians have 6 months experience, what happened to those that were there 2 or 3 years ago.

 

[AjayGhatak]

We already touched on this before. Without going into the details of how East Asian culture is fundamentally different from South Asian culture, we can look at the results.

Both Japan and China have produced technical products that have dominated large portions of the globe. Without making excuses, when India produces an array of such technical products, we can continue the conversation. Until then, it remains frozen.

You only broached the topic. All of this "Culture vulture" talk is BS. Wind the clock 40-50 years back and many east asian were considered equally backwards, even culturally.

China and Japan got where they are by adopting capitalism in various forms. Nothing less nothing more. Both Pakistan and India have been dominated by forces that hate capitalism.

Yes, there is a shortage of some skillsets but the vast majority of tech jobs require relatively mediocre and generic skills.

Sure as hell you have not even run a team. Or you were involved in mundane parts of the "tech" industry. The ones that got mostly outsourced and then automated in last 10-15 years. There was a time when running an email server was a job. It first got outsourced and then replaced by hosted services.

In all my work I have seen managers and leadership struggling very badly to hire and retain workers.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@AZ_HighCountry

The claim was "cost savings" by outsourcing. It took awhile before we realized any "savings". On top of that, the churn rate post outsourcing was on order of 150-200% on average.

And yet American companies continue to outsource and continue to grow and prosper! Are we missing something?

Regards

 

[r3alist]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

The influx of Indians into Western tech is the best thing that has happened to China.

Not because Indians are inherently inferior but whenever nepotism trumps meritocracy, the results will always be inferior.

I guess there is a good logic to it, Indians fit the requirements well enough, for the decision making class

The discussions on the pros and cons are moot , there are many differences between the two, but that's another topic

India is not even talking about having it's own deepseek competitor, that would upset the west so I guess it's labour export and services to the west


There is the question of job distribution, everyone will want to be part of the ai trend , and jobs are meant to reduce right ?


The tech oligarchy ARE REALLY SINISTER

They will effectively adopt any language or political position to further their control, they cynically can as they have the data, and manipulate people to further their own power

Remember you silly sheep, they want to automate your existence away , once you have consented it's too late, so having calmed from the deepseek sugar rush I think ai pace is too much

I don't believe these guys have an ideology other than a transhumanist direction for mankind with the tech and scientific oligarchy at the top

 

[r3alist]

China and Japan got where they are by adopting capitalism in various forms. Nothing less nothing more.

Their society is more harmonious, amenable to be law abiding, emphasis on education and they have higher average iqs, not all capitalism is equal ....you need a level of high societal development to have good capitalism

China will have a lot of high iq people

 

[r3alist]

No, its very pertinent. For a guy to move from upper middle to complete financial independence and top level of US politics at an age of 39 is pretty big. He is first generation to boot.

Its a question of context.

Are you related to him?

This is going beyond healthy admiration and respect

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

So you are admitting that 'savings' are now being realized.

Not clear about the churn rate as the H1B worker cannot change jobs.

Which role had 400% churn rate.

It took 3 years.

Almost ALL of the jobs that were outsourced to Chennai were seeing churn rates as I stated.

The H1Bs were here to learn the job then go back to Chennai to teach those who would be doing the jobs.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@r3alist

India is not even talking about having it's own deepseek competitor, that would upset the west

Indians are actually talking about it- both the govt and some entrepreneurs, but nothing is going to come about it.

Are you related to him?

Normally, I wouldn't expect a Ghatak and a Ramaswamy to be related but they may well be.

Regards