POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

[Goenitz]

@Waz, please lock perhaps for a few days until we have more data instead of random news, while moderators/administrators etc can write. Otherwise, it will go 100 pages too.
What do you say?

 

[jehangir]

Point defence enhancement with missiles, CIWS, Laser and Microwave weapons.
Latest potent SAM procurement with manufacturing rights and expedite efforts for self reliance with the aim of quantity and quality.
Harden and hidden bunkers for value able assets no tin daba big hangers, recent hits on bases are clear example.
HAS on airbases should be stretched on wide area, possibly some ground Tunnels with lifts, distinct in layout, not like 4 on start and on 6 end with same pattern on all air bases.
Same applied for command bunkers on different places.
Move the NCA commands to nearby mountains.

I think we lack Bharamos style supersonic missile. We should develop longer version via HD-1 or some other Chinese missile. It should be with different variants for tri services.

I don't understand we could not use our own,Turkish or Chinese UCAVS with full results just like Armenia war.

 

[hussain0216]

Beyond the threat of escalation and the usual economic matters, why Fatah 1 only?

Purely strategic / tactical question.

Fatah 2 was also used, Fatah 2 is much heavier with a range of 400km

Both are faster and cheaper to use then cruise missiles
So I'm fine with their use

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Fatah 2 was also used, Fatah 2 is much heavier with a range of 400km
Both are faster and cheaper to use then cruise missiles
So I'm fine with their use

Especially, when your HALE/MALE drones with EW/EA/ELINT/Imaging suits lock them for a precise round....

 

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan beex

We need to go over our air defenses with an eye towards the munitions India is likely to use, and not so much the Jets. Loitering munitions will only increase and we need relatively simple AA guns linked to modern AESA radars and EO/IR systems as well as anti-drone drones to knock them out. All modestly priced but highly effective, as Ukraine has shown. The Turks, in NATO, can brief us on what nato has found worked and didn’t work in Ukraine.

We need full air field level dispersal capabilities on all our motorways. Ammo and fuel dumps, engineering equipment, etc. all hidden throughout the country; the Swedish/Swiss style.

Btw, a Perun video just dropped on the Pakistani military strategy. He is one of the best at analysis on the big picture:

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The Indians upgraded their 40 mm L70 bodies guns via Israel. We should do a similar upgrade with our AA guns via China.

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[That_Guy]

A few observations:

For Pakistan:

Its clear that while Pakistan needs better anti-BM, anti-CM, and anti-drone systems, and rapidly, it came out better than expected. Regardless, the amount of damage India was able to do, despite losing 5 fighters in the process, was ridiculously high, and would have been mitigated with proper systems in place.

Plus, with how India was able to saturate Pakistani bases and AA sites with drones shows where a future war between the two will head towards.

The quicker Pakistan finds a solution, the better.

Pakistan also needs better PR, and needs to tell Khawaja Asif to sit down and shut the f*** up, or resign.

It needs better methods to deal with India's misinformation campaign. A dedicated department that debunks Indian claims, and provides facts backed with evidence would do wonders.

It also needs to better fund its diplomats, and give them proper media training to deal with aggressive crony journalists that try to ambush them with misleading information, or just straight up lies.

For India:

Its clear India needs to change its entire air force doctrine, and rethink its future purchases. They can't simply buy expensive, and rely on the philosophy that expensive = better.

They likely need to rethink their forces training, because it's clearly inadequate. They as well should think about investing in anti-drone systems.

It needs to rethink it's aggressive policy towards its neighbors. It's lost all its allies and friends due to its unneeded aggression, because it just ends up looking like a child throwing a tantrum.

It foolishly almost started a nuclear with with its biggest neighbor, because it's nationalist hindutva government was too head strong and refused to cooperate with even its international allies that had a lot of sympathy for it. It needs to think long and hard at what happened, and decide if potentially ending the lives of over 1.7 billion people across the two nations is worth it to satisfy the ego of one man, and his extremist followers.

 

[mulj]

Nobody mentioned but i think it is important to include Bangladesh in this post war upgrade/replenishing games not asking to go in suicidal war by them self unprepared but some high level coordination and foundation level of built up should be projected as possible eastern front for india, that kind of coordination would mean a lot as multiplying effect both military and financially for both countries and divert more resources from enemy.

 

[MS Sandhu]

Beyond the threat of escalation and the usual economic matters, why Fatah 1 only?

Purely strategic / tactical question.

May be production issue
Fatah series is new in Game
Fatah-2 is going to be our mainstream strike weapon but b/c it's new in game we don't have them in enough numbers.so saved it for use in later stage as an X factor.
Indians are producing Brahmos since 2000s so they have enough stocks to fire through out the war.

 

[FuturePAF]

Point defence enhancement with missiles, CIWS, Laser and Microwave weapons.
Latest potent SAM procurement with manufacturing rights and expedite efforts for self reliance with the aim of quantity and quality.
Harden and hidden bunkers for value able assets no tin daba big hangers, recent hits on bases are clear example.
HAS on airbases should be stretched on wide area, possibly some ground Tunnels with lifts, distinct in layout, not like 4 on start and on 6 end with same pattern on all air bases.
Same applied for command bunkers on different places.
Move the NCA commands to nearby mountains.

I think we lack Bharamos style supersonic missile. We should develop longer version via HD-1 or some other Chinese missile. It should be with different variants for tri services.

I don't understand we could not use our own,Turkish or Chinese UCAVS with full results just like Armenia war.

We also need to be more mobile and dispersed with our jamming equipment and surveillance equipment on the ground. Toyota hilux across three trucks can carry 1. jammers cued by eo/ir camera and datalink, 2. radar and e/o gear on mast and 3. Gun mounted systems with radar and Eo/ir sensors to distribute lethality across the battlespace.





Relatively Cheap systems like these in the thousands throughout the country, linked by datalink, will be an able to deter most subsonic threats and cue our systems to respond.

These systems can also be used in COIN, detecting movement of personnel on the ground or in coastal area of boats near the coast.

definitely need to move the military how out of PIndi and under the mountains near Islamabad.

Finally, we need hypersonic gliding warheads and a. Increase in our nuclear arsenal that can penetrate any air defense, up to and including THAAD-ER, so that whatever India buys they should know that MAD is still possible. We have to move from credible minimum deterrence to MAD because India has become a redoubled existential threat to us.

 

[muhammed45]

First question I want to start with why did we not see stocks of cruise missiles used?

View attachment 119609

Expensive i guess.

 

[muhammed45]

Iran had a similar problem with long range expensive CMs mostly legacies of the Soviets. Guidance kit, lack of high tech subsystems first forced us to develop equivalent of Russian ones and then make them cost effective. Moving from Turbofan to Turbojet powered CMs started with Ya-Ali cruise missile. It had a range of 700 Km initially. Then it was upgraded to the ones used by AnsarAllah in Yemen that exceeded 2,000 Km range.

Iran provided this cost effective solution for Yemenis and they successfully used it against Aramco (petro dollar), Israeli and American targets.

We started with this (red one)


It ended up with this in the hands of Yemani Mujahids


Cost effective.

 

[muhammed45]

Don't forget, India had to use its expensive Brahmos CM. They wanted to somehow cover up and compensate weaknesses of IAF.

But on the contrary, Pakistani side didn't deem it necessary to waste its highly valuable and expensive reserves of cruise missiles that have Chinese origin for its obvious superiority in air battle during a short term conflict.

They are reserves for doomsday, i guess.

 

[That_Guy]

Don't forget, India had to use its expensive Brahmos CM. They wanted to somehow cover up and compensate weaknesses of IAF.

But on the contrary, Pakistani side didn't deem it necessary to waste its highly valuable and expensive reserves of cruise missiles that have Chinese origin for its obvious superiority in air battle during a short term conflict.

They are reserves for doomsday, i guess.

I suspect if the air battle had gone the other way, and the Rafale had lived up to its own hype, Pakistan would have been more inclined to use its CM reserves.

Having said that, Indian missile attacks were hard for Pakistan to Thwart, and its clear that India has an advantage in that department.

The same can be said for Pakistani guided missile artillery systems (Fatah 1/2) that India couldn't block as well, but India has the numbers advantage here.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

PAF bases also hit shows air defence needs to layered to a far greater degree.

It's almost next to impossible for both countries being neighbours.

 

[That_Guy]

It's almost next to impossible for both countries being neighbours.

Next to, but not completely.

The right circumstances can result in a permanent peace.

You need someone sane in India, who doesn't give into domestic political pressures to talk to Pakistan in a genuine and serious way.

The last person was Manmohan Singh, and Pakistan came close to some sort of peace deal. Unfortunately, Indian key holders essentially side lined him, and Modi came to power and reversed all the progress that was made in order to appease the ultra-nationalist warhawks.