Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Immortals]

Well Iran will have to rethink their strategy around Air force

Should Lock in

(Short Term)

• J10C (4 Squadrons)
• JF17 Block III Thunders (4 Squadrons)

(Long Term)

• Bring in a Western Fighter Jet , Rafale seem like quite available these days (2 Squadrons)
• Supplement with Sukhoi-30 (2 Squadrons)

Indigenous Development

• Keep a separate program for a light Medium , fighter Jet produced Locally

Need minimum deterrence

I stopped reading when you suggested Iran should buy Rafael.

 

[guangdongt]

The biggest question now is how long the Iranian regime can remain stable. This conflict shows so many traitors within Iran, which is shocking. Plus, they and Israel have become immortal enemies. Israel will not give up its crazy infiltration. The isolation of Iran by Gulf countries poses a huge risk of destruction and betrayal for any country selling advanced weapons.

 

[Michael]

Iran does not possess CI4IR and CI5IR systems, nor integrated air defense systems.

Iran has imported a CETC JY-10 air defense command system from China. It is already in operation in Iran.

JY-10 air defense command system is a low-end foreign trade type product launched by CETC. It specific is:
1. Extremely wide range of compatibility. It can Whether it is the SA-2 air defense missiles in the Soviet period, or the current S300/S400 air defense missiles; whether it is the Russian system, NATO system, Chinese system, or even Iranian system; it is fully compatible.
2, low price. It uses a lot of commercial grade electronic components instead of military grade electronic components. This leads to its low price. Of course, there are still many differences between its capabilities in some areas and military grade electronics.

The chain of command itself doesn't have any discovery or combat capability, it just integrates a variety of various radars with completely different systems, different data standards, and different interfaces, and then automatically processes the information to respond accurately in the shortest possible time.

If you have a radar system of your own that can't detect a target, the chain of command won't react. If your air defense missiles themselves have range and firing accuracy problems, the chain of command can't do anything about it.

However, Iran has only purchased this command system and has not purchased China's advanced radar system or advanced air defense missiles.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Just Send 40 pilots in China Training School , and 40 Pilots in Pakistan , and fly back with planes from Chinese Factory to Iranian Airports

Full Squadron at a time

Just ask China to make

• 40 J10C
• 40 JF17 Block III or even Block II

Fly back after pilot training is completed in China

Send 20 Pilots to Russia Pilot Training School

• Fly back with Sukhoi 30, 20 Units

Problem solved

Russia seems to be able to deliver on time and to budget, orders that Algeria make. They are due to Su-57 by the end of this year.

Algeria confirms acquisition of Su-57 | Times Aerospace

Alexander Mikheyev, the head of Russia’s state-owned Rosoboronexport defence agency had confirmed the first foreign client would receive the first aircraft in 2025. It was announced at China’s Zhuhai Airshow in November last year that there was a first customer for the Sukhoi, which attended the...

www.timesaerospace.aero

Why can't it do the same with Iran ? What is the hold up ?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Some leaks now appear to indicate that Iran, after the first day of strikes, lost 70 air defense batteries and directly purchased HQ-16 and HQ-17AE batteries from China. Some say Iran needs six months to train on these batteries. Iran does not possess CI4IR and CI5IR systems, nor integrated air defense systems. The main radars were attacked from the ground and by Israeli aircraft. You are dealing with a penetrated state trying to cleanse itself from within. Establishing an integrated air defense system requires two years to establish a network capable of countering air threats, and it is very expensive. To give a simple example, CI5IR systems cost billions and years to build. They may take two years. Egypt spends at least a billion dollars annually on purchasing air defense batteries and radars from several international sources, both Western and Eastern, for many years, just to maintain the system's readiness. There are leaks that Iran is currently contracting for squadrons of J-10C and JF-17 aircraft. Time is a very sensitive factor. Pakistan Acquiring J-10C aircraft. China has converted a number of J-10B aircraft and upgraded them to J-10C level before starting production for the first contract.

One of the countries that contracted for 40 J-10C aircraft will receive 12 J-10C aircraft from the Chinese Air Force after refurbishing them according to customer requirements. A squadron will then be delivered within a year and a half, and the entire deal will be completed within at least two and a half years.

The current production rate of the J-10C is 40 aircraft per year. There is a contract being completed for Pakistan and other contracts. Therefore, how will Iran obtain rapid delivery of J-10C fighters? The only solution will take months, such as acquiring J-10A aircraft, upgrading them with an AESA radar, and later replacing the engine with a WS-10 engine.
When the aircraft reach their overhaul rate, which also takes months, nothing will happen quickly unless they acquire aircraft from the Chinese Air Force and pilot Chinese pilots.
The production rate of the JF-17 aircraft does not exceed 24 aircraft, and there is a contract being completed for the third batch. For the Pakistani Air Force, unlike the Azerbaijan contract, rapid delivery is not possible. Even Pakistan's JF-17 Block III aircraft do not exceed 30 aircraft, and Pakistan's conflict with India is set to escalate at the end of the year. Therefore, Pakistan cannot risk sending aircraft it desperately needs. Rebuilding armies takes years and from several sources, not just one, two, or three countries. Even if China agreed to help Iran develop local systems or produce them under license, it would take a year to transfer technical knowledge and components to begin deliveries. If Iran had two years, we would have seen a significant improvement in its capabilities. However, Israeli and American plans will hasten the outbreak of war again for several reasons: closing the Strait of Hormuz, thus hindering China's need for Iranian and Gulf oil, as well as further European economic difficulties to hinder any growth in the European economy, making them succeed under the mercy of the Americans. Israel, all of its plans, failed, and emerged from the war wounded. Instead of appearing to be a dominant power, the world saw how Tel Aviv is being hit and the Jews are asking to stop the war even with what Iran has lost. The truce that has been reached now only means a breather for both sides. All the war goals for all parties have not ended. Up until this moment, China is the one who has won from the conflict between Pakistan, India, Iran and Israel. Do the Americans want China to gain?

Both the J10CE and JF17C have low production runs because both the China and PAF and don't view those aircraft as the tip of their spear any more with them being viewed more of a commodity platform that they can incrementally work on over time. Pakistan may scale up production rates of the JF17C after localisation of the entire platform is done in Pakistan and China may do so if it sees serious export demand for the J10CE, though that will still time to scale up.

Rather the focus for Iran should be (if China is willing of course) the J-35AE as it is a new platform that is being scaled up for large scale deliveries to the Chinese Armed forces, Pakistan and there is talk of Egypt looking at it one point after they get their J10CE deliveries and even UAE(i am not sure on that one given they cannot be trusted). The J-35AE can be purchased on mass once the manufacturing pipelines are setup and China can size her manufacturing pipeline from the outset to meet large orders.

The J-35AE will give Iran the ability to push the IAF back over to Syria/Israel as any aircraft refuellers can be tracked down and shot down with ease. Iran does not need to engage IAF fighters directly at all, just to take down the air-to-air refuellers and that makes IAF operations massively difficult with only limited level of operations possible.

The J10CE and J17Cs can help fill significant capability holes that Iran has right now, and it will help build the required ecosystem to be able to induct J-35AE's down the road when they are available.

Iran needs to make quick decisions now as time is not on their side for their usual theatrics of trying to pitch people off against each other and general manoeuvring that never goes anywhere...

 

[Ali_Baba]

France generally sells if Money is there , I think France is looking to make some sales so seems like a good avenue to explore as well

• 40 Units of French Rafale , might be possible
• Have good mix between Western Jets and Chinese Jets

Note my assumption here is French are looking for customers and there is no hidden agenda

The French help Israel conduct these attacks. Iran knows this. I dont see them getting Rafales after that. The fact that the J10CE beat up the Rafales black-and-blue with shooting 3 Rafales down, will not have been lost on Iran either.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Paf will train iranian air pilots. It's just training, nothing that will scare the Usa or Israel, even if Iran has 100 advanced trained pilots with Su35s, they will still not be a threat to the Usa and Israel, they're on a different level. The benefit for iran is atleast their airforce can hold attack for a few days and by that time ballistic missiles will be ready to be fired.

Iran needs to be able to :

a ) push the IAF back into Syria by attacking the air-to-air refuellers,
b) attack bases in Iraq if they are being used by the IAF
c) protect their missile launchers and entry to their missile bases so that they can do their jobs.

Iran does not actually need to engage the IAF directly. Platforms like the J-35AE will be difficult to track and shoot down, and the J-35AE can perform all of the above which will neutralise both the IAF and Israel.

 

[tsunset]

People should not forget that Israel destroyed a part of our attack helicopters and chinooks

If there is any import, we need attack helicopters and heavy lift helicopters

Z-10ME would be a good choice it is comparable to AH-64

I'm not going to talk about Russian helicopters because they are never going to deliver anything

 

[Ali_Baba]

People should not forget that Israel destroyed a part of our attack helicopters and chinooks

If there is any import, we need attack helicopters and heavy lift helicopters

Z-10ME would be a good choice it is comparable to AH-64

I'm not going to talk about Russian helicopters because they are never going to deliver anything

What is the threat that Iran faces right now, and what is the immediate focus required for those threats? There is no planned land invasion of Iran, and even though attack helicopters were destroyed, how relevant are they compared to spending the money on AD and AEW&C, air refuellers and jets like J-35AE/J10CE/JF17C etc .

 

[tsunset]

What is the threat that Iran faces right now, and what is the immediate focus required for those threats? There is no planned land invasion of Iran, and even though attack helicopters were destroyed, how relevant are they compared to spending the money on AD and AEW&C, air refuellers and jets like J-35AE/J10CE/JF17C etc .

Attack helicopters could perform on mossad commandos launching ATGMs near SAM sites, as well as against terrorists inside Iran. They can also intercept drones just like Israel does with its Apaches. They could have a full anti-air configuration for such use

And they would deter some of our neighbors (especially Azerbaijan) to do adventurism inside Iran or launch drones "by mistake" inside Iran

Israel said they destroyed some of our AH-1J because they were actively intercepting drones and trying to fire at commandos firing ATGMs

Iran barely has any CAS options right now

 

[OldTwilight]

People should not forget that Israel destroyed a part of our attack helicopters and chinooks

If there is any import, we need attack helicopters and heavy lift helicopters

Z-10ME would be a good choice it is comparable to AH-64

I'm not going to talk about Russian helicopters because they are never going to deliver anything

Lets be honest here , All these fighters and attack helicopters should be retired 20 years ago , Israel did us a favor by destroying these ...

 

[OldTwilight]

Attack helicopters could perform on mossad commandos launching ATGMs near SAM sites, as well as against terrorists inside Iran. They can also intercept drones just like Israel does with its Apaches. They could have a full anti-air configuration for such use

And they would deter some of our neighbors (especially Azerbaijan) to do adventurism inside Iran or launch drones "by mistake" inside Iran

Israel said they destroyed some of our AH-1J because they were actively intercepting drones and trying to fire at commandos firing ATGMs

Iran barely has any CAS options right now

Are you comparing our old AH-1 with Israelis Apache !?

 

[tsunset]

Are you comparing our old AH-1 with Israelis Apache !?

I was comparing Z-10ME with Apache, they are similar

Even the AH-1J we have managed to down some drones (according to Israel itself) and were patrolling near SAM sites to search for ATGM commandos

 

[BigMela2onin]

Lets be honest here , All these fighters and attack helicopters should be retired 20 years ago , Israel did us a favor by destroying these ...

There is no replacement...
When was the last time we heard about the national attack helicopter project?

 

[Nevsky]

Z-10ME would be a good choice it is comparable to AH-64

I absolutely do not understand why do you assume that the Chinese will sell you something? Why do you think that all of a sudden they will make 180 degrees turn in their policy and will start selling weapons to you, being the biggest enemy of Israel, which is the biggest ally to the US, which is the most important country for the Chinese economy by far?

Russia itself would be happy to buy weapons from China, like we do from North Korea and Iran, can you guess why its not happening? And meanwhile Putin and Xi keep talking how big and cool allies we are, which is not the case in your relations with them.

China sees Pakistan as a tool to contain India. And the US and the West dosent really care what Pakistan or China do in this regard, thats their relations explained. Thats not the case with you and it wont be, until you sing some kind of an "Abraham accords" deal with Israel. I can bet that the Chinese wont sell you any attacking weapons until you make some kind of a big peace deal with Israel and the US.