PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[RajaBaja]

Based on Pakistan's logic, your point is correct. But there are some things you don't understand.

1. China's foreign arms trade, most of the time, has very low profits.
If you carefully calculate the PAF's order for 20 J-10CEs, you will find that the profit is very low. If you consider the monetary economy generated by the loan factor, it is actually a loss-making business (the value difference generated by the money invested in other civilian fields).

2. The executive team of China's military enterprises has no sales performance pressure. ------ No pressure, no motivation.

China's foreign arms trade is more out of strategic security considerations, not economic considerations. The civilian product field will allow China to earn more profits without any concerns.

This is our current situation. Will the Chinese government change its strategy in the future? I don't know.

We have no idea about the J-35's foreign sales strategy. I can only provide my personal analysis and opinion.

It is likely to be a "test product" for China's foreign advanced weapons trade.

20 years ago, Rest of the World :
There were no Chinese-branded mobile phones.
There were no Chinese-branded cars.
There were no Chinese-branded ......
Now, the world is different.

Today, only a very small number of countries in the world use Chinese fighter jets.
What about the future?

Let's take an example. Who will sell for low profits? Its a normal sales strategy. The company that wants to "enter" the market and start earning. Their goal is NOT profits, their goal is entry and over long term, they think they will start to make good profits because they offer good capability for the price, like the Chinese weapons in discussion.

Same motto was behind JF-17, J-10C, HQ-9, etc, both earlier items proved themselves and to the world. This also tells us that China WANTS to do business in foreign markets and establish her name first, vs. US, EU, Russia and overtime will start raising prices for better profits. More profits means more funds available for R&D, simple.

China is a trade country. You can't remove the word "trade" out of a "trade" based nation.

@MastanKhan you can share some examples here also. Low profit entry....... Hyundia and Kia come to my mind quickly.

 

[ety]

I agree with everything but the part about "satisfy PLA". When you can earn billions of dollars in profit AND satisfy your own military better, because with more profits, you can put more $$ into R&D, no country will say no to that. It just doesn't happen. Doesn't matter if its China or anyone else.

I don't think China is making that much profits selling its weapons if you look at the quite low export prices, not like US and European countries and to less extent Russia that make huge profits. It might be easier for China to make profits by exporting many commercial products at the present.

 

[RajaBaja]

I don't think China is making that much profits selling its weapons if you look at the quite low export prices, not like US and European countries and to less extent Russia that make huge profits. It might be easier for China to make profits by exporting many commercial products at the present.

I just explained this same thing in a different post. China finally has that 'WOW' moment about its weapons since Pakistan-India war. Ukraine's has focused Russian weapons for Russia itself. So Russia is sort of out. Now it's really US, France and China.

It's the best time for China to export its weapons. A new manufacturer always sell their products for low profits, so they can attract a big range of customers. Those who want decent capability and those also on budget. And you gain more and more market slowly and start raising profits.

 

[MastanKhan]

Let's take an example. Who will sell for low profits? Its a normal sales strategy. The company that wants to "enter" the market and start earning. Their goal is NOT profits, their goal is entry and over long term, they think they will start to make good profits because they offer good capability for the price, like the Chinese weapons in discussion.

Same motto was behind JF-17, J-10C, HQ-9, etc, both earlier items proved themselves and to the world. This also tells us that China WANTS to do business in foreign markets and establish her name first, vs. US, EU, Russia and overtime will start raising prices for better profits. More profits means more funds available for R&D, simple.

China is a trade country. You can't remove the word "trade" out of a "trade" based nation.

@MastanKhan you can share some examples here also. Low profit entry....... Hyundia and Kia come to my mind quickly.

Hi,

In my experience---low profit is a disaster for the sales of the product---but chinese are not selling just for the sake of selling---. They are building an association---.

Results are right in front of us---the J10 CE---JF17 BLK3's & the PL15---.

The J10's and the PL15's at basically no cost to us---but look---what have they done to the prestige of the chinese---.

Made the whole billion plus chinese nation wake up to the realization that their weapons can do the job---.

So---how much profit is that recognition worth---.

So what does low profit mean---. It means that at zero profit---your factories are still operating---your people still employed and making a living

Hyundai and Kia charge an arm and a leg---cheap cars but same price or more than honda & toyota---.

China sometimes does push and nudge us towards a certain product---just like the F7PG---.

 

[RajaBaja]

China sometimes does push and nudge us towards a certain product---just like the F7PG---.

I agree with everything you said. This comment above made me cringe. That was also the case on HQ-9P.......... it should've been HQ-9B from the start.

 

[FarhanSiddiqui]

…….. French most advanced Rafale fighters have failed miserably in recent Indo-Pak mini war …..

But Saar the French and Indians said it was Indian master stroke Artificial Intelligence projections X-Guard that fooled Pakistanis believing that they had shot down any Indian jets including Rafale. LOL !!

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[MastanKhan]

I agree with everything you said. This comment above made me cringe. That was also the case on HQ-9P.......... it should've been HQ-9B from the start.

Hi,

The F7PG far exceeded the expectations of the Paf---. They were rather surprised at it abilities.

 

[Michael]

Let's take an example. Who will sell for low profits? Its a normal sales strategy. The company that wants to "enter" the market and start earning. Their goal is NOT profits, their goal is entry and over long term, they think they will start to make good profits because they offer good capability for the price, like the Chinese weapons in discussion.

Same motto was behind JF-17, J-10C, HQ-9, etc, both earlier items proved themselves and to the world. This also tells us that China WANTS to do business in foreign markets and establish her name first, vs. US, EU, Russia and overtime will start raising prices for better profits. More profits means more funds available for R&D, simple.

China is a trade country. You can't remove the word "trade" out of a "trade" based nation.

@MastanKhan you can share some examples here also. Low profit entry....... Hyundia and Kia come to my mind quickly.

You need to know more about the logic of international arms trade.

In the field of international arms trade, there are some basic rules. These rules are completely different from the rules of general civilian commodity trade.

Protection fee/ally joining fee.
If you buy my weapons at a high price, I will keep you safe. If you don't buy my weapons, I will use various means to deal with you. This is the means used by the United States against many countries. And these countries that buy weapons have no say.

Exchange of political interests.
This is also a very common phenomenon in international arms trade. For example, Pakistan's F-16...

Most transactions in the field of international arms trade are not based on basic business rules. Only a small amount of arms trade complies with basic business rules.

China sells weapons abroad just to have one less enemy. We don't want these countries to form a military alliance with China, but at least when war comes, they are unlikely to become China's enemies.
So, China has no intention to make high profits from these arms trades. Both J-10CE and Rafale fighters are 4.5th-Gen medium fighters. There are actual combat results between the two. Their transaction prices are public. You can compare these differences. In the context of modern industrial technology, how much profit do you think China will make from selling these J-10CEs???

That's all.

=============================
If China wants to make huge profits through arms trade, there are some simpler and faster ways.
The PLA directly showed its "fangs" and taught certain countries a hard lesson...
But this is obviously not the Chinese way of doing things.

 

[ety]

But Saar the French and Indians said it was Indian master stroke Artificial Intelligence projections X-Guard that fooled Pakistanis believing that they had shot down any Indian jets including Rafale. LOL !!

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Haha, the latest truth only discovered by Indians and French after months of the conflict. And all the Rafale wreckages shown by Indians on the internet in the first few days are fake too, lol. Can't believe the French are that low too, they even admitted downing of some Rafales in the beginning, they are now blaming Chinese supposedly doing disinformation in the world to discredit their Rafale in the recent war. Never mind the Indians.

 

[RajaBaja]

You need to know more about the logic of international arms trade.


China sells weapons abroad just to have one less enemy. We don't want these countries to form a military alliance with China, but at least when war comes, they are unlikely to become China's enemies.
That's all.

=============================
If China wants to make huge profits through arms trade, there are some simpler and faster ways.
The PLA directly showed its "fangs" and taught certain countries a hard lesson...
But this is obviously not the Chinese way of doing things.

China has finally caught up in capability and thanks to PAKISTAN, today, the world respects Chinese weapons a LOT more than just two months ago.

Your leadership makes VERY different comments offline than what you or a few of you guys make online. Bottom line: China wants a piece of global defense market and penetration into other nations like the US did. That's just what every growing nation wants. Belt and Road initiative, CPEC are just examples. Best example is when nations strategically rely on Chinese weapons. Then they've chosen a side.

I wish China luck in growing its influence in defense sales around the world. We will always be happy to see China grow more.

 

[RajaBaja]

Hi,

The F7PG far exceeded the expectations of the Paf---. They were rather surprised at it abilities.

Yes, but for those requirements back in the 90's. It was a good and extremely agile interceptor. 2019 requirements for Pakistan military were very different and again a sea of change in May 2025 and post Iran-Israel war. That's where my focus is usually in my posts.

Get ready for another headache, Taliban are requesting AD systems from Russia. Rumor has it that it may be a couple of batteries of S-300's. Still super capable. We will now have to focus on ALL 3 borders! Requirements are changing so rapidly.

 

[Michael]

China has finally caught up in capability and thanks to PAKISTAN, today, the world respects Chinese weapons a LOT more than just two months ago.

Your leadership makes VERY different comments offline than what you or a few of you guys make online. Bottom line: China wants a piece of global defense market and penetration into other nations like the US did. That's just what every growing nation wants. Belt and Road initiative, CPEC are just examples. Best example is when nations strategically rely on Chinese weapons. Then they've chosen a side.

I wish China luck in growing its influence in defense sales around the world. We will always be happy to see China grow more.

I'm sorry, I can't use English to express what I really want to express. Maybe I will try to adjust my expression.
I know that English is the official language of Pakistan. But the thinking logic of Chinese people is indeed very different from that of the English-speaking world.

In the current Chinese policy, foreign arms trade is indeed not an important matter for us. Will it still be like this in the future? We don't know. But at least in the next 10 to 20 years, the primary task of all Chinese military enterprises will still be to meet the needs of the PLA.

 

[RajaBaja]

I'm sorry, I can't use English to express what I really want to express. Maybe I will try to adjust my expression.
I know that English is the official language of Pakistan. But the thinking logic of Chinese people is indeed very different from that of the English-speaking world.

In the current Chinese policy, foreign arms trade is indeed not an important matter for us. Will it still be like this in the future? We don't know. But at least in the next 10 to 20 years, the primary task of all Chinese military enterprises will still be to meet the needs of the PLA.

All big powers gain influence, because they need it. Its done in modern times in 2 ways: 1: Soft Influence (trade, infrastructure, cultural) 2: Hardware (military, tech, equipment, etc)

China has been pouring billions into countries where it may never recover money from. Like Africa, Myanmar, and many others, with Belt and Road initiative. Why is that?

Its a China's way of gaining influence softly (per the Chinese culture as its not aggressive like the US / Russia can be). China also chose BRI strategy because it excelled in infrastructure. It was the easiest and soft and "more liked by others" approach compared to the US / EU's weapon systems because China couldn't compete with those at that time. This BRI strategy started around 2000's in full swing. While, the weapon sales were low on the list because China was behind times. Not because it thought "we don't need to sell weapons to others".

Now we are in 2025, China has made leaps and bounds improvement in military weapons. As we recently saw, the Chinese weapons took out French systems with clear advantage. With that display through Pakistan, China can NOW have its focus back on weapons sales to gain influence, in addition to BRI, etc.

This is the time, Russia is too busy and will be busy for next 5 years with internal demands to cover losses. French are outclassed by Chinese weapons. That only leaves US and China on the top. Now focus will come on foreign weapons sales and I believe it already has.

 

[Scorpio]

Yes, but for those requirements back in the 90's. It was a good and extremely agile interceptor. 2019 requirements for Pakistan military were very different and again a sea of change in May 2025 and post Iran-Israel war. That's where my focus is usually in my posts.

Get ready for another headache, Taliban are requesting AD systems from Russia. Rumor has it that it may be a couple of batteries of S-300's. Still super capable. We will now have to focus on ALL 3 borders! Requirements are changing so rapidly.

For afghan mirages are enough... For now ..

But in future we have maintain our numbers.... Which will be costly

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

But Saar the French and Indians said it was Indian master stroke Artificial Intelligence projections X-Guard that fooled Pakistanis believing that they had shot down any Indian jets including Rafale. LOL !!

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Only one Rafale crashed, what malfunction was it reporting? High altitude, what is now that high altitude malfunction??

How difficult have their lives become? If they had accepted it, they would have found peace by now, but now it seems they won't find peace for many years to come, and they'll keep making new false stories every couple of months. Then a stage will come when 1.5 billion Indians will create 1 billion different stories about Operation Sindoor.