US to soon initiate Military support to Pakistan along with bi-lateral Trade growth, the Economist report

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The Indians got severely duped. They worshipped Trump. They had the false hope that Trump would punish Pakistan and reward India endlessly. I remember the days on PDF legacy when Indians used to argue and take joy in how Pakistan's days were numbered. Incredible how times have changed.

indians are still continuing to worship trump as their Lord God in temples all across india:

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[Pradotlc]

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[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes, Trump II has turned out to be almost totally opposite of what was expected by the Indians. There was already some cooling down under Biden but what's happening now is almost hard to believe. The Left wing of India is using Trump to bash Modi, which is expected because that's what politicians do. But even the Right wing of India is frustrated with Trump; there is even a recent blog where they are wishing for India to just lay low until the US Midterm Elections in Nov. 2026 where Trump is likely become a 'lame duck' President. But I don't think that would matter because a US President can do a lot of things on foreign affairs even being a Lame Duck.

Doesn't matter who is in power. If the indians don't act against the Chinese then what use are they for the west and america? indians failing to successfully confront the Chinese will only further decrease the power of the west and america.

 

[PakistanLVR]

Quite simply speaking, India doesn't have a reliable, powerful ally like Pakistan has in China. Indians are vulnerable in UNSC Resolutions unless India dishes out goodies to the P-5 and India is forced to buy expensive hardware from Western countries while the supplies from Russia is very problematic.
Every major power knows India's vulnerabilities these days and they must know that Pakistan had twice humiliated India in military encounters. The world doesn't respect a loser!

I respect your views. I take a longer view than most people and I'm convinced when and if India purchases F35, the US Will become Pakistan's foe outright as the F35s will transform India's air force eco-system to that of the US/NATO and their pilots will likely become on par with pilots from Pakistan. Not to mention the Americans will pull every trick in the book to ensure these do not get shot down in any future conflict with the Indians. The Indians will be salivating orgasmically in trying to rehabilitate their p*ss-poor reputation when it comes to their military losses.

 

[Yasser76]

I respect your views. I take a longer view than most people and I'm convinced when and if India purchases F35, the US Will become Pakistan's foe outright as the F35s will transform India's air force eco-system to that of the US/NATO and their pilots will likely become on par with pilots from Pakistan. Not to mention the Americans will pull every trick in the book to ensure these do not get shot down in any future conflict with the Indians. The Indians will be salivating orgasmically in trying to rehabilitate their p*ss-poor reputation when it comes to their military losses.

Massive if. Very massive.

Right now its looking like America maybe more interested in shooting down Indian planes

 

[Meengla]

I respect your views. I take a longer view than most people and I'm convinced when and if India purchases F35, the US Will become Pakistan's foe outright as the F35s will transform India's air force eco-system to that of the US/NATO and their pilots will likely become on par with pilots from Pakistan. Not to mention the Americans will pull every trick in the book to ensure these do not get shot down in any future conflict with the Indians. The Indians will be salivating orgasmically in trying to rehabilitate their p*ss-poor reputation when it comes to their military losses.

As I have said multiple times on this forum, I don't know much about military hardware. Having said that, F35s are supposed to be very good but only when rigorously maintained and with very high level of pilot training. They are often in maintenance mode even in very good air forces. Plus they are very expensive to buy and maintain.
But what other choices India have with Russia bogged down in Ukraine? India is already several years behind Pakistan in air force so maybe they reluctantly get the F35s to not only fill gaps in their air power but also to curry some favor with Trump. But then what? Trump is a bully and he may well want India to 'do more' because that's in the nature of a bully. Who knows for sure though.

 

[PakistanLVR]

I guess more power to the "civlizational" states like Iran and India for going it alone - but sooner or later the bill is due as in the case of the eastern monkeys. Iran OTOH is truly independence unlike the psychos in the East of Pakistan.

 

[Yasser76]

As I have said multiple times on this forum, I don't know much about military hardware. Having said that, F35s are supposed to be very good but only when rigorously maintained and with very high level of pilot training. They are often in maintenance mode even in very good air forces. Plus they are very expensive to buy and maintain.
But what other choices India have with Russia bogged down in Ukraine? India is already several years behind Pakistan in air force so maybe they reluctantly get the F35s to not only fill gaps in their air power but also to curry some favor with Trump. But then what? Trump is a bully and he may well want India to 'do more' because that's in the nature of a bully. Who knows for sure though.

F-35 alone will not solve Indias problem. It will need top buy more US kit. P-8 is good start, but air refuellers, AWACS, datalinks, ground radars and of course totally new weapons package.

Without all the about you will lose a lot of the capability the F-35 brings to the fight. Imagine if PAF had all Chinese systems and AEW and was trying to fight just with F-16s?

 

[KingQamaR]

Quite simply speaking, India doesn't have a reliable, powerful ally like Pakistan has in China. Indians are vulnerable in UNSC Resolutions unless India dishes out goodies to the P-5 and India is forced to buy expensive hardware from Western countries while the supplies from Russia is very problematic.
Every major power knows India's vulnerabilities these days and they must know that Pakistan had twice humiliated India in military encounters. The world doesn't respect a loser!

In fact, due to India’s continuous destruction of co-operation between BRICs countries and the SCO, everyone is getting turned off with spoiler Delhi nowadays hope China boots them out of BRICks . They are seen as bad actors by all. Indian only real strategy all long was to play anti China to win big favours with US . on trade to military support. This alone does not work with this President! Anymore.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I don't think any big ticket items will come from US, but small equipment such as night visions, radars, snipers, more MRAPS could be reasonable to expect, as for major stuff I think the best we can get which is a big IF is F-16's upgrades, and AH-Z1's release. I don't see any more new F-16's coming, not even 18... It would be ideal but US-PAK relationship is a mess and it won't just fade away in few months/years.

It would be a waste of money to buy MRAPS form the USA when local, turkish and chinese platforms will be cheaper and just as effective.

The USA makes the best nigh vision systems, so they would be very useful to Pakistan for sure.

Radars if they are good on the cost/benefit analysis but we will face the conflict of having Chinese stealth platforms with USA radars in Pakistan, it is something that needs to be managed carefully. Pakistan does not need the AH-Z1s anymore as it has the Z-10ME and potentially the T929 or Z-21(ME) when they mature and are available. If the Americans are prepared to release the remaining CSF funds that they with held, there are quite a few other systems that Pakistan can use that money on. eg more C130s to replace the older ones in PAF service?

As for F16s, how much will the upgrade cost. How many new flying hours does that buy you. What level of military value does that upgrade give you relative to other solutions. Is it cost effective to upgrade them and potentially have an inferior solution than the J10CE, or is it better to simply buy J10CEs at the same (or lesser cost for those flying hours) and simply retire the F16s. We need to move past the mantra of "upgrading" for the sake of upgrading and look at the costs/capability in clear clinical terms. If you look at it through those lense, then the F16 upgrade programme makes no sense on that cost/military capability equation for the new flying hours you get versus a brand new J10CE.

In my view, there is no value in F16 upgrades given they may cost the same or more than a new J10CE and may only give you the same number of "new" flying hours as a new J10CE, and that with an inferior technology to the J10CE due to the advantages of the PL15. PAFs F16s(other than the Block 52s) are quite worn and have high flying hours.

The focus on the relationship with the USA should be on sanctions termination, technology restrictions lifted and mutually benefitable trading relationships.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Pakistanis will get happy and stat jumping up and down like monkeys on a hot surface

then new administration will cancel it and same Pakistanis will cry

move away from US and their weapons its not 1990s anymore

PL-15 scored a kill on the most advanced Western jet from over 200km and yet Pakistanis still begging

Pakistan wants friendship with both the US and China at the same time, not choose one over the other.

Pakistan is an underdeveloped country and can't afford to reject any economic and financial opportunity heading it's way.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It would be a waste of money to buy MRAPS form the USA when local, turkish and chinese platforms will be cheaper and just as effective.

The USA makes the best nigh vision systems, so they would be very useful to Pakistan for sure.

Radars if they are good on the cost/benefit analysis but we will face the conflict of having Chinese stealth platforms with USA radars in Pakistan, it is something that needs to be managed carefully. Pakistan does not need the AH-Z1s anymore as it has the Z-10ME and potentially the T929 or Z-21(ME) when they mature and are available. If the Americans are prepared to release the remaining CSF funds that they with held, there are quite a few other systems that Pakistan can use that money on. eg more C130s to replace the older ones in PAF service? There is no value in F16 upgrades given they will cost the same or more than a new J10CE and only give you the same number of new flying hours as a new J10CE, and that with an inferior technology to the J10CE.

The focus on the relationship with the USA should be on sanctions termination, technology restrictions lifted and mutually benefitable trading relationships.

Our relationship with america should be STRICTLY economic and transactional. NOTHING more.

 

[Ak01]

It would be a waste of money to buy MRAPS form the USA when local, turkish and chinese platforms will be cheaper and just as effective.

are you sure about cheaper...? because EDA's are usually bargain basement bottom dollar pricing. Its a pretty effective way to stock up, immediately too on very capable high end equipment for wayyy cheaper.

UAE paid 500k/unit for 4600 MaxxPro's, refurbed and upgraded. 2.5bn total deal. Without all the extra UAE cash splash, you could get that down even more.

Chinese stealth platforms with USA radars in Pakistan, it is something that needs to be managed carefully

Pak's ad network relies HEAVILY on western radars. Hensholdt and Lockheed radars make up a huge portion of Pak's radar network. I also dont see any solid indication of a J35 buy so far

Pakistan does not need the AH-Z1s anymore as it has the Z-10ME and potentially the T929 or Z-21(ME) when they mature and are available

AH-1Z's can support the cobra fleet if released, would be a great addition infact. T929 or Z21ME is a bit of a pipe dream, being the beta tester for new systems is never a great idea, particularly when using unproven tech in key bits like engines. Theres a reason why most helicopters and planes rely on engines designed decades ago, because they're dependable and reliable.

There is no value in F16 upgrades given they will cost the same or more than a new J10CE and only give you the same number of new flying hours as a new J10CE, and that with an inferior technology to the J10CE.

How can you make this claim? There are MANY merits, even if we just ignore technical capability for a moment.

F-16V's will likely receive a lifex to 16,000h. No J-10 will ever come close to this. sorry.
On top of that, there is an order backlog, with many countries signing up to induct. This means there's GUARANTEED OEM/International support for the F-16 for the next 40/50 years. I cannot see CAC giving a toss about J-10s for that long considering even now, the PLAAF has its eyes set on bigger prizes, with them moving J-10 production to 'lower tier' plants. They're moving too fast for our long term life cycles.

Also, this claim of no value is so silly. How can you factually claim that F-16V's bring inferior tech to the table lol. This is delusional on so many levels. Its a fact that Chinese radars available to Pak are still not at the maturity level of western ones. I made a very simple example, the KLJ-7A/LK601FE both have SAR resolutions orders of magnitudes higher than the APG-66- r decades old radar. Beyond that, im not sure how from one engagement you've concluded that the J-10 is the supreme king of the skies lol.

An F-16V buy brings an enhancement to the already 40 years of tactics, training, support and deep knowledge of a platform very deeply nurtured by the PAF. Nobody knows the F-16s like the PAF, IAF and USAF. It also brings possibly one of the most advanced and comprehensive ECM suites available today. IVEWS still brings tech not yet seen on PLAAF or PAF J-10s to the table. Towed decoys, cognitive and adaptive processing, open architectures and most importantly, ASSURED support. Plus, its pretty amazing, the US is the leader in spectrum warfare, networked fights, etc etc, its pretty safe to say nobody does EW and Radars like the yanks because their entire warfighting doctrine is centred around it.

 

[Ak01]

Our relationship with america should be STRICTLY economic and transactional. NOTHING more.

pretty retarded. If pakistan can cut off India from the US market by continuing to engage the US defense sector, while still meeting some needs from china eu etc, why the hell shouldnt it?

Pak diplomacy getting the US to piss india off has done wonders. India getting their hands on F-35's and US kit would be seriously concerning. You can make all the jokes you want about Indian incompetence, but the F-35 is a serious piece of kit and would be a real threat, yet thanks to our diplomacy, the Indians are pissed and will kill off AMCA by buying into SU57's, further deepening their reliance on a faltering Russia, while also taking on more sanctions.

Win bloody win for us.

 

[Ak01]

I respect your views. I take a longer view than most people and I'm convinced when and if India purchases F35, the US Will become Pakistan's foe outright as the F35s will transform India's air force eco-system to that of the US/NATO and their pilots will likely become on par with pilots from Pakistan. Not to mention the Americans will pull every trick in the book to ensure these do not get shot down in any future conflict with the Indians. The Indians will be salivating orgasmically in trying to rehabilitate their p*ss-poor reputation when it comes to their military losses.

India and F35 wont happen, particularly so long as Pakistan continues to engage with the US