Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

Seat Trials are based upon the following steps that may require more sub steps depending upon each customer. The Sea Trials generally also include builders rep including engineering and systems specialists and in attendance is a sub support vessel and might at some point in time include specialized acoustic noise plotting platforms. The sea going trials can last up to six months depending upon the findings of the initial trials. After each phase of the trials, data is studied, if anything is to be remedied then it is done. However if it requires major work up, it may require dry docking.
1. Submerging and Diving:
  • The submarine is submerged for the first time, with a diving support ship in attendance, allowing the crew to test the diving and surfacing procedures and the stability i.e. "Trim" of the vessel at different depths.
  • This involves hydrostatic testing, ensuring the hull can withstand the pressure at various depths. Including diving to the design depth and holding for a specified time as outlined in the design parameters agreed to by the builder and customer.
2. High-Speed Maneuvers:
  • The submarine performs high-speed runs on the surface and submerged, testing its speed, maneuverability, and handling characteristics.
  • This includes crash dive and stops, where the submarine abruptly reverses direction to assess its braking and stability. That is generally known as Crazy Ivan Maneuver in the sub fraternity.
3. Emergency Drills and Systems:
  • Emergency procedures are tested, such as emergency surfacing, essentially checking the ballast tanks performance including emergency flooding, and loss of propulsion and power, to ensure the crew can handle unexpected situations safely.
  • These drills may include sudden emergency reversals, which can be challenging for subs due to their instability at high speeds.
  • Fire fighting equipment testing including checking of major fire fighting elements within each compartment.
  • Emergency evacuation systems including escape compartments are also flooded and simulated escape is also exercised to check all systems are working. The first leg of this phase is done alongside in port when the both the the inner and outer hatches are checked proper vacuum seal.
4. System Checks:
  • All onboard systems, including propulsion, navigation, communication, and life support, are thoroughly tested to ensure they function correctly. At this point in time depending upon the customer, sonar and other detection elements are also run through their phases. This may require external surface and sub surface help. Decoy deployments is also checked and verified. Flank array or the reeled out are also deployed and checked.
  • This includes checking for leaks, vibrations and vibration noise (Acoustics), and proper operation of all equipment.
  • Torpedo tubes are also flooded and torpedo handling equipment including safety equipment is thoroughly checked. However, most customers conduct armament and associated systems checks as a separate protocol and not part of the initial sea going trials.
5. Crew Performance:
  • The sea trial also assesses the crew's ability to operate the submarine effectively and safely under various conditions. Presumably the crew has already been trained in Shore based static mockups and training simulators or real subs attached to them as under training officers or ratings.
  • This includes evaluating their response to emergency situations and their overall teamwork and coordination. This will remain an ongoing exercise till joining the fleet and afterwards. It takes quite a while to master all the systems and sub systems of a sub.
6. Post-Trial Inspection:
  • After the sea trial, a thorough inspection of the submarine is conducted to identify any issues or damage that may have occurred during testing.
  • This ensures that any necessary repairs or adjustments can be made before the submarine is formally delivered or accepted.
  • This takes quite a bit of time and the leadership team of the sub (The customers designated officers and crew) have to ensure that everything is minutely recorded and any discrepancy between agreed parameters and actual performance is highlighted and rectified. It is an exhaustive exercise and I can only imagine the language barrier (as we faced with the French until we built one in PN dockyard) is very strenuous work. All these documents/reports and rectification updates and further performance tests reports by the designated captains and divisional officers are made part of the subs permanent docs.
 
IMO

PN will end up producing yj18e's in pak and could perhaps use them as the next srep up from babur
Hopefully a 12 UVLS section can be added to at least the last 3 subs, if not all in the mid life update. The UVLS can open up the possibility that so many Chinese (and Pakistani licensed derivatives) weapons could be put in them as more are approved for export.
 
Where are these sub pens located in Ormara??

inside mountains, deep channel which is more than 800 feet deep, and evenly goes inside the mountains. then subs surface up
what i have heard that the depth under the plateau is more than 1000 meters..
 
What are service life these class Chinese subs?
 
What are service life these class Chinese subs?
30+ years. Keep in mind the earlier variants of the ones being inducted into PN have been in PLAN service since the turn of the century.
 
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interesting but I would not expect anything other than Chinese engines
 
inside mountains, deep channel which is more than 800 feet deep, and evenly goes inside the mountains. then subs surface up
what i have heard that the depth under the plateau is more than 1000 meters..

You are literally only person who is saying that it already is completed and operational. It was the plan but I think it was postponed (or still not completed) because right now, we can count all of our subs in satellite imagery. In every update of sat images, they are found under the sun.

The kind of base which you are referring is IDEAL and need of the hour. It will make whole calculations of adversary very difficult. The proposed location is obviously under hammerhead of Ormara where there is natural elevation.

The key is submarines leaving or entering the base must never be detected. Enemy should not be able to see submarines docked outside in the port.

India is also building underground submarine base.
 
You are literally only person who is saying that it already is completed and operational. It was the plan but I think it was postponed (or still not completed) because right now, we can count all of our subs in satellite imagery. In every update of sat images, they are found under the sun.

The kind of base which you are referring is IDEAL and need of the hour. It will make whole calculations of adversary very difficult. The proposed location is obviously under hammerhead of Ormara where there is natural elevation.

The key is submarines leaving or entering the base must never be detected. Enemy should not be able to see submarines docked outside in the port.

India is also building underground submarine base.

All i can say that i know what i know from the horses mouth.
 
inside mountains, deep channel which is more than 800 feet deep, and evenly goes inside the mountains. then subs surface up
what i have heard that the depth under the plateau is more than 1000 meters..
I hope you are right. Also, having the main naval base at Karachi always looked to be a high risk. IMHO, The PN should consider a new base on the Sindh side of the river near Hub, with pens dug into the mountains to house all vessels, including large ships. The PN fleet isn’t so large building a few dozen pens over the next decade, plus a massive new military only harbor with an airport isn’t worth it.

For the subs, one entrance in and one entrance out would be fine for a massive cavern, but for surface vessels, individual hanger like caverns for the large ships and large caverns/pens for the smaller patrol craft would be ideal.


This is what the Soviet were said to have planned according to 80s US DoD publications.
1755641468980.jpeg
 
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30+ years. Keep in mind the earlier variants of the ones being inducted into PN have been in PLAN service since the turn of the century.
30+ years depending upon usage and dock area. Karachi port has some of the most toxic and corrosive waters which takes a heavy toll on Ship steel.
 
30+ years depending upon usage and dock area. Karachi port has some of the most toxic and corrosive waters which takes a heavy toll on Ship steel.
True, but the first Agosta 90B, PNS Saad was inducted in 2003. Operating in these same waters, it will be in service till 2035-40.
Conditions that you are referring to have to be catered to with regular overhaul services etc.
 
I hope you are right. Also, having the main naval base at Karachi always looked to be a high risk. IMHO, The PN should consider a new base on the Sindh side of the river near Hub, with pens dug into the mountains to house all vessels, including large ships. The PN fleet isn’t so large building a few dozen pens over the next decade, plus a massive new military only harbor with an airport isn’t worth it.

For the subs, one entrance in and one entrance out would be fine for a massive cavern, but for surface vessels, individual hanger like caverns for the large ships and large caverns/pens for the smaller patrol craft would be ideal.


This is what the Soviet were said to have planned according to 80s US DoD publications.
View attachment 141919


Sindh side isn't safe. It should be away from border. Ormara is best. If additional is needed then Gwadar also is good.

About your concept photo, the Russians did made such bases. Chinese have such bases. Swedes and other Scandinavians are believed to have those too. India is building one. More images and concept at below post:

Yes very right, almost impossible to hide how many subs you operate when everybody can see your naval bases via satellites. Plus exact coordinates / locations of your submarines docking stations are known to the enemy. Unless you invest in underground submarine bases. I just draw a basic concept.

View attachment 138537

So basically, submarines will ALWAYS remain submerged before entering the base. First it's difficult to know exact location of the base. Even if the base location gets known, enemy cannot know how many subs you have built / procured and operating out of that base. Lastly, destroying submarines in surprise attack becomes nearly impossible. As massive elevations are impossible to penetrate using usual cruise missiles, unless the enemy has those B2 / MAP kind of stuff. Also most importantly, enemy will never know when your submarines left the base. Are those subs currently in deep oceans OR in the base. Enemy will keep guessing. So this thing is critical for Pakistan. Right now, we can count our all subs from satellite imagery. Enemy ofcourse will always have latest sat images then publicly available. It will give massive strategic advantage to PN.

Since Pakistan is investing a lot in submarines. I really wish we develop such hardened / secure naval bases.

View attachment 138534


Ormara has a natural elevation which is great for these, Plus that angle makes it impossible for any projectile to hit from South or East. Its opening is from North-West.

View attachment 138535
 
30+ years depending upon usage and dock area. Karachi port has some of the most toxic and corrosive waters which takes a heavy toll on Ship steel.
Even more reason to move the fleet, or at least the bulk of the fleet out of Karachi.

IMHO, the Karachi PN area could be prime for redevelopment for high end commercial use and recreational use. The money raised could pay for a new main naval base, on the sindh side of Hub, at Sunehri Beach. With mountains just behind, it makes a great place for munitions storage and ship pens. Heck, a runway could be build on the other side of the mountain for MPAs and Fighters, which could also be based in the mountains. The power plant could ensure reliable power and the river, fresh clean water supply, for the men and the platforms.

An area down the coast could be developed, including a fishing port to offset the beach being taken from the locals.

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The German engine couldn't be delivered due to an EU embargo?

How about Pakistan reject German request to take back Afghan interpreters and translators that were destined to Germany?

Nevertheless, what the Germans won't provide to Pakistan, China will provide in abundance.
 

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